Hot Potato - Update 2

It used to be that when Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist Ken Avidor wanted to smear pod transit as a right wing conspiracy, all he had to do was trot out one of his state's Republicans who had said or done something supportive in the legislature.

Leaving aside the issue of why Minnesota was able to produce, elect and nurture whackjobs like Michele Bachmann and Mark Whoever despite the (best?) efforts of Ken  the Dump Blogger, we have to remember that the pro-PRT community for many years was limited to one citizens group with limited resources.

Republicans were generally anti-light rail and therefore seen as the path of least resistance, and they became a focus of pro-PRT efforts. This was a mistake, especially since it turned out there were plenty of Democrats willing to offer bills on PRT. 

My point is that it was easy for Ken to trot out Krazy Eyes and Slappy whenever (and that was often) he needed to dismiss PRT as fringe.

But he can't do that now, now that there are Heathrow pods, Masdar City PRT and Suncheon pods in operation, and plenty of non-Republicans are interested.

He can't do it, but it doesn't mean he won't try.

Recently Ken  tried to use his old technique of linking a politician to 'pod people,' hoping to achieve shaming. But this time the politician is Jim Oberstar, who is giving the keynote at this fall's Podcar City conference at George Mason University.

Oberstar is no small-time loon like the aforementioned duo.*  For one thing, he's a Democrat. And in his 1975-2011 House career he amassed enormous gravitas on transportation issues. He was only Chairman of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.  In fact, Oberstar is an avid cyclist and promoted creation of bike trails during his long career. You'd think Ken would remember that. Awkward.

Jim Oberstar doesn't need Ken Avidor's approval.

Will Avidor attack Oberstar more as the Podcar City conference gets closer? It would be the stupid thing to do, but -- Nah; I think he'll drop it.



^* UPDATE 1 -- Ken quotes us out of context again! He tried to slime Oberstar, now tries to make it look like we did it.

Archive -- Ken Avidor misquotes all over himself (2011)

UPDATE 2:  James Oberstar, 1934-2014

gPRT
Get it together Ken, you're barely trying

A Certain Demeaner

Ken Avidor served himself up for us to write about today, with the following tweet. Apparently he just couldn't resist the opportunity to conflate Bachmann's 2003 PRT bill with the current St. Croix River Bridge project.

+

 

The one thing has nothing to do with the other -- unless you equate the bipartisan support for the bridge in the MN congressional delegation with the 13 Democrats and 5 Resmuglicans who were pro-PRT in the 2003-04 state senate session.

We'll leave behind the matter of the bridge, since Ken's handlers seem to have helped him find the correct side of that issue. But what of this 'promotion' of PRT by Minnesota Public Radio?

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It was a story in MPR's News & Features section. Got that? Not Opinion or Editorial.

In Ken's eyes, if a news story doesn't agree with his propaganda it must be enemy propaganda. That's how author Dan Olson is turned from a reporter into a promoter.

You know, this reminds me of the time Ken Avidor took issue with an article about a possible PRT project in Dubai:

"Personal Rapid Transit" PRT Disinformation Part II and III (Ye Olde PRT Skeptic Blog, 11/5/05)

"Fun"? There was nothing fun about it. Ken wasn't satirical, there was no irony, he employed no pun or other wordplay. 

Nope, it was just Ken Avidor suggesting you Google sexy pictures of Zoe Naylor while thinking of an accomplished business reporter who happens to have the same name.

Far from fun, it was demeaning. Ken Avidor might as well have told journalist Naylor to hold an aspirin between her knees.

Ken makes MPR sad

gPRT

Important question marks

Yesterday I answered a tweeted question from @JN_Seattle ("John Niles") about Vectus PRT:

Pretty straightforward.

Yet this a.m. the Laffable Luddite ignores the question marks in Niles's tweet, and jumps to the conclusion:

Which is a good example of the basis of the Hail Mary (Business Plan, Jan. 21, 2012): Ken Avidor needs the reader to NOT click the link, read the referenced tweet, and learn that Niles is just asking me questions, and reveals nothing about his position on pod transit.

The only ways Ken can know Niles's position on pods is -- a) ask him or b) read his mind. We know he hasn't asked him.

The actual purpose of Ken's tweet is a Hidden Ball (ibid): he is repeating his phony linkage of PRT with the Discovery Institute (Today's Provocation, Apr. 15, 2006).

The Deconstruction

1. I don't know John Niles except by reputation. He worked at the Cascadia Center, the Urban Issues think tank housed at Discovery.

2. Wacky Discovery promotes Intelligent Design; wonky Cascadia promotes high speed rail, commuter & DMU rail, Portland-style streetcars, and plug-in cars.

Where Discovery is The Munsters, Cascadia is Marilyn.*

3. We can make an educated guess about Niles: he is either conservative or doesn't care a whit about politics. Political contributions by him in federal or Washington state elections are: zero.

Today Niles is working on an EV-based project at CATES, another Puget Sound-area think tank -- hardly what a drill-now/drill-here Republican would do. And the number of writings on the Web by John Niles on subjects not related to transportation politics is exactly:  zero, plus or minus zero.

4. Niles's position on light rail is well known. He's been openly against it, based on the size of the investment and operating subsidy. This can be researched at his website, Global Telematics. Instead, he is for Bus Rapid Transit.

On these stands we part company, since I believe the public nature of transit means The People ought to be able to authorize and subsidize anything it wants, if an electoral majority decides it is worthwhile.  And readers of This Week In Precipitation know my distaste for BRT.

5. Niles's only connection with PRT is that his site archives papers written in the 1990s by then-State Rep. Dick Nelson (D-Seattle, an engineering PhD) and Berkeley economist Don Shakow, funded in part by the Bullitt and Medina foundations (extremely reputable Seattle foundations). Nelson and Shakow mention PRT along with a host of noncontroversial proposals.

Ken will say this is enough of a connection. But that 1990s activity did not arise from a vacuum. The concurrent Raytheon PRT program had created expectation of availability of a PRT system to act as a circulator-feeder for light rail.  So much so that Sound Transit nee RTA brought PRT under its umbrella, culminating in a $30 million Innovation Fund which, among other things, was to conduct a PRT demonstration. This is the landscape in which the Nelson-Shakow work took place.

6. It is true that Cascadia, and therefore Discovery, sponsored a 2005 public workshop in which PRT was discussed (no policy statements resulted). But if that makes Niles a 'pod person,' then he is also a commuter rail person and a passenger ferry person, since those were the subjects of other meetings in the series. Hardly disreputable.

Conclusions

Update 1:

ALSO TODAY:

Feb. 4: Nathan Koren states his opinion (see first Feb. 4 post) that bureaucracies plan and purchase transit systems without much regard for public input.

Feb. 5: Ken Avidor claims Koren dismisses the importance of public involvement in decision-making.

gPRT

* I suppose I have to note that I would not date Marilyn, lest Ken try to imply something.

Intolerance

Luddite fires his loose cannon, Part II

It was so predictable. No sooner had I alerted Ken Avidor to the existence yesterday of the Richmond Confidential's human interest piece on Cybertran's Eugene Nishinaga, than the Laffable Luddite picked it up. And today he blogs about it: "Faith-Based Pie-in-the-Sky Boondoggle Cybertran Partner's Right-Wing, Anti-Abortion Tweets"

Now, we know Ken shares our distaste for fundamentalist Christians, since it is a fixture of his work with Dump Bachmann (motto: "Dumping Bachmann since 2005 or possibly 2004").

But "Faith-Based Pie-in-the-Sky Boondoggle Cybertran Partner's Right-Wing, Anti-Abortion Tweets" takes him into smeary territory that is darker and intolerant. Because the Richmond Confidential article isn't about the right-wing partner (Allen Payton), the focus is on Eugene Nishinaga:

CyberTran: Small start-up has big dreams
By: Alexis Kenyon | October 31, 2011 – 4:05 pm

For Eugene Nishinaga, the chief technical officer at CyberTran International, ultralight rail is nothing short of a spiritual awakening.

"I was actually driving on the highway, right outside the [Richmond] field station," he said, "totally coincidence — and I felt the call of God."

The call was the impetus for a major shift in Nishinaga's life. At the time, he was a respected research and development manager for BART with nearly 40 years experience in transit. But in 2008, Nishinaga, 58, quit his job to take a position at CyberTran International -- an ultralight rail start-up based out of UC Berkeley's Richmond Field Station.

Avidor needs to discredit Nishinaga because the man is an expert in conventional transit who is now trying to make innovative technology a reality. Therefore Avidor uses the old bait-and-switch -- in the headline promising Payton, but leading with Nishinaga. Equating them.

I don't know what Nishinaga's political views are, but the way his religious views are characterized in the story (he felt a 'calling', he wanted to become a pastor and join the ministry) is so neutral as to reveal nothing that is inherently fundamentalist OR liberal.

The point is that Avidor doesn't know what Nishinaga's ideology is either. But because of Cybertran, Avidor goes ahead and smears Nishinaga anyway, because he needs Nishinaga to be just like Payton.

Today we also see Ken attempt to practice the journalism basic known as 'establishing a pattern':

It is not surprising to find faith-based jargon among supporters of Personal Rapid Transit. PRT is essentially a faith-based concept - check out Higherway PRT brought to you by the inventor of the Savior Cycle.

But the pattern here is that the person is religious, not how they are religious. Avidor is just indiscriminately (or discriminately) putting all religious people in the same basket.

He doesn't know anything about Higherway inventor Tad Winiecki, he just sees another Christian like Nishinaga who, in his mind, must be just like Allen Payton. And, presumably by extension, just like Michele Bachmann.

Except I happen to know that Tad Winiecki is definitely not like Bachmann:

On March 21st, 2007, Tad Winiecki said:

I have noticed what I consider far too much name calling, attributed motives by association, and denigration of opponents in most public forums and especially blogs related to partisan politics. I was trained to be a scientist so this is against my usual way of thinking. It bothers me when Republicans refer to the "democrat party" rather than the "Democratic Party". It makes me want to call them the "publican party"...

---

On June 19th, 2007, Tad Winiecki said:

"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich – both come to poverty." Proverbs 22:16 (NIV)

Corporate welfare – gifts to the rich – bothers me. A bad example in Washington State (and many similar cases elsewhere) was tearing down the Kingdome in Seattle and building a new stadium. It cost us poor taxpayers and benefitted rich team owners and players. Uneconomic deals with extraction industries such as oil companies are also giving to the rich. The Republican Medicare prescription drug plan was a gift to rich drug companies. We could go on and on, couldn’t we?

Ken could have known this too. But he is not duly diligent.

Religious intolerance. Somewhat ironic for someone who is waging a holy war against new transit technology.

Earlier:
The Luddite Veto (September)

Luddite fires his loose cannon (October)

Update 1:

PRT Consulting reports Nishinaga has left CyberTran

gPRT

Luddite fires his loose cannon

We can't think of any other reason Ken Avidor would need to smear Richmond City Council progressives such as Dr. Jeff Ritterman, so the only reason, the Single Issue, is Personal Rapid Transit.

Apparently realizing his attack on Richmond, California's support for CyberTran conflicts with his Only Right Wingers Support PRT talking point, Avidor has doubled down on the smear.

Now he's blogging that the liberals on the Richmond city council aren't real liberals. No, apparently they're:

Self-described "progressive" members of the Richmond, California City Council

Source

And to deepen the smear, Ken uses the tried and true Sarah Palin tactic, Questionin' The Associations.  In Ken Avidor's universe, progressive Jeff Ritterman is a "progressive" (in airheadquotes) because of the involvement of one Allen Payton.

It's Ken's same old Cooties talking point -- he says if you're for PRT you're Just Like Bachmann, you're for Bachmann's Boondoggle, because she got her cooties on it in 2004. Never mind the DFL (Democratic)-dominated bipartisan agreement on PRT.

What Avidor means is: Councilman Ritterman's support for new transit technology means nothing because I say it has GOP cooties -- in fact it means Ritterman isn't a real progressive.

Yet inconsistent Ken (and his Twitter proxies who pretend to miss the point) remains in favor of light rail despite it being infested by Heritage Foundation founder Paul Weyrich's cooties. It's Ken's standard, not mine.

Not only does Ken Avidor want veto power over your local transit policies, he's also annointed himself the go-to litmus tester to vet your elected officials for you.

What a dick-tator.

Update 1 - Ken claims 2011 GOP-Green connection:

But the blog post "http://t.co/eb5eAKiU" contains no mention of Greens (23:09 PDT).
I don't care for U.S. Greens -- not enough experience in governance -- but that doesn't mean they deserve to be lied about. 

Update 2 (10/7) - He continues to push the Conservative Cooties angle in attempt to shame California Democratic elected officials. Basically, whether you call it a hotel project, economic development, or whatever, Ken Avidor is opposing transit-oriented development in Richmond.

• Archive: Against it before he was for it -- Avidor sides with opponents of Smart Growth in Alameda

He continues to try to suck up to Current TV (after attacking it) in the Comments:

• Only Avidor would call realism "dampening expectations." The reality is that ULTra's India partner is proceeding with a system in dense Amritsar, in the state of Punjab.
• Also, there is no nasty political battle in Richmond over Cybertran. The city is pursuing a lobbying effort, any controversy will be due to Avidor (or other out-of-town proxies) creating one. 

gPRT

The Antiplannidor

Hey peeps, guess which anti-transit gadfly also opposes Personal Rapid Transit? It's Randall O'Toole.

That's right. The unshakable opponent of planning -- who calls himself "The Antiplanner," and whom every light rail-or-nothing opiner has a voodoo doll of in their sock drawer -- has a new piece in which he vents gallons of sniditude on podcars.

I've read comments by PRT-haters who just assuuuume O'Toole's anti-LRT stance means he's a PRT-lover. But as O'Toole himself notes:

Pretty Ridiculous Transit

...I've argued since 2003 that driverless cars are the reason why PRT, short for personal rapid transit, will never happen.

...PRT has attracted a fanatical following. Even though no PRT system has ever been built, they are convinced it is cheap, fast, convenient, energy efficient, and everything else that ordinary transit is not.
...
While [ULTra PRT] may save Heathrow the cost of bus drivers, this is hardly cheap considering freeways cost as little as $2.5 million per lane mile plus right of way (which probably isn’t included in the $41 million Heathrow cost).
...

While ordinary PRT vehicles are captive to the system, the PRT cultists attracted to my driverless cars article focused on a variant known as dual mode... The problem is that every dual-mode (and PRT) proposal requires a massive investment in new infrastructure.

"Fanatical"! "Cultists"! Klassy. Hey, who does that remind me of? Oh yeah: Ken Avidor.

Yeah, the Ovendoor has been calling us those very names, and others, for years.

So it's especially delicious to also read whom O'Toole turns to as a supporting reference: Avidor himself!

According to users (as reported by an intense PRT skeptic who also happens to be anti-auto), it frequently breaks down.

Ken and Randall sittin' in a tree / s-m-e-a-r-i-n-g! Yes, schadenfreude makes me immature.



gPRT Ken will probably claim O'Toole's PRT hate is phony, and part of The Conspiracy

Reading Is Still Fundamental

The Minnesota Department of Transportation has issued an RFI for PRT in that state. So today anti-PRT propagandist Ken Avidor asks:

Will MnDOT be taking this PRT plan into consideration?

For the answer to Ken's question, let's go to the RFI!

5.1 Who May Respond

Responses from any city, county, company or organization, such as a university, institution, or partnership of same with the ability to build, operate and maintain such a system are welcome.

Dean Zimmermann (ex-Minneapolis Green Party councilor who served time in the federal prison system for "illegal gratuities") is not a PRT builder, operator and maintainer. Nor is CPRT, the nonprofit advocacy group who supported Zimmermann's plan in the past.

In short -- NO, Ken, the Zimmermann plan won't be considered. The answer was right there in the RFI, in black and white, for you to read.

Ken Avidor's 'question' is merely his latest attempt to smear PRT through guilt by association.





gPRT

There he goes

It's December 24 everyone, and legend has it that tonight at midnight the animals will be able to talk!

I'm going to be listening. And what I hear will probably be more intelligible than the latest PRT Moondoggie post by Ken Avidor.

In his latest anti-PRTeabagging epistle (and check out the seasonal URL!), Ken appears to simply be attempting an ol' drive-by ricochet three-fer:

1. Ken snips a six year old item to 'question the association' of Taxi 2000 with one Loren Jennings. It shows Ken is really interested in perpetrators of fraud, since Jennings was convicted of fraud (mail, and money laundering) and Avidor personally knows Mark Knapp, a fellow PRT-hater who happens to be a federal fugitive wanted for identity theft.

2. Avidor returns to the subject of Cabintaxi and Ed Anderson. Back in the '70s a conman named Ryan had tried to defraud the German PRT company and Atlantic City interests. This is an old smear, with Ken headlining a 2006 post "Ed Anderson's Atlantic City Casino Con Job." This despite it being clear Anderson, then a Cabintaxi employee, was one of Ryan's victims, not his partner.

3. Ken Avidor's final tangent this time is another return to the past -- posting two pages from the lawsuit filed by Taxi 2000 Corp. against Anderson after he departed as that company's CEO. It's all out of context -- and irrelevant, because the suit was settled four years and four days ago.

Gee, what would Mark Knapp think of this post by his ex-friend and blog co-author?

Also today: Keep track of how many hits Google finds for "Ken Avidor" "Mark Knapp"

gPRT

Janga!

When will Ken Avidor learn that guilt by association is playing a dangerous game? Stack one smear on top of another, then another, and another, and pretty soon the pile topples over and you get bitten on your own butt.

Editor's note: We continue beta-testing the change to one of the oldest editorial policies of "PRT is a Joke" IS A JOKE. For a limited time, The Name of the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist will be shown -- although special formatting will be used.

Yes, Dave Bicking is running for something again, which means the smears can't be far behind:

If Bicking still believes that Zimmermann is innocent, I hope he would urge Zimmermann to sign the waiver to release the tapes shown at his trial to the media so voters can decide for themselves.

And when it comes to casting stones at candidates who have accepted donations from developers... (click to make bigger):





Source

Yes, click and make it bigger. What you see is the name Rochelle Barrett, and she is a Big Bad Real Estate Developer who donated $300 to Bicking. In 2006.

Barrett is an executive for her husband Basim Sabri's company. He's a developer who was jailed for 19 months on bribery charges. Guilt associated!

Oh but wait -- Barrett has also given money to one Barb Lickness. As did Sabri:

I received a $300 LEGAL campaign contribution from Basim Sabri in February of this year. Basim did not ask for anything in exchange for his contribution and I did not offer anything in exchange for this contribution.

I received a $300 LEGAL contribution from Rochelle Barrett, Basim's wife. Rochelle and I were well acquainted with one another. She campaigned on my behalf at the 6th ward endorsing convention. To my knowledge, Rochelle has not been charged with any crimes.

...

Barb Lickness
Whittier
Ward 6
City Council Candidate

Source [9/5/2001.]

Barb Lickness... Barb Lickness... where have I-- OH YEAH! She's been mentioned before in "PRT Is a Joke IS A JOKE" -- she is the conservative friend of a right-wing developer.

So? Barb Lickness is also anti-PRT and a supporter of Avidor's anti-PRT holy war, herself regurgitating his talking points.

Butt bitten!


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The Butt, about to be bitten.



gPRT

Post mortem - What We Learned

Editor's note: Today we begin beta-testing a change to one of the oldest editorial policies of "PRT is a Joke" IS A JOKE. For a limited time, The Name of the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist will be shown -- although special formatting will be used.

When a comment thread like the recent, bifurcated threads at Daily Kos and Viropop are concluded, I like to go back and read through it to summarize What We Learned.

So what did we learn about Ken Avidor, the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist, this time?

1. I put forward, twice, the proposition that the approach he takes in opposing PRT is to claim that all PRT supporters believe the same thing.

"What Ken is doing is attempting to establish a stereotype... 'People who fervently advocate PRT don't advocate light rail'... What Avidor is claiming is about as imaginative as 'Battlestar Galactica fans don't like Star Trek.' On a superficial level this would seem a convenient and easy way to pigeonhole people. But if you give it just a little critical thought of course it's not true, even though you can find a few people who fit the stereotype."

"Your thesis is that all PRT supporters believe what RP4409 believes. The video does not show that. The video just shows that you found a guy who fits your stereotype."

2. KEN DOES NOT DENY HE IS APPLYING A STEREOTYPE. In fact his response does exactly that.

"What did the guy in the video say about LRT?
What did the guy say about PRT?
What did his brochure show?
BUSTED!!!"

He's saying the words of the guy and his brochure prove his thesis ("busted"), that all "PRT promoters are anti-Light Rail Transit (LRT)" (and right-wingers like Michele Bachmann).

3. Then in a followup in the Viropop branch of the discussion, just to make sure we understand, he posts another video, and writes "busted" about that one too. In my reply, I post videos from the World Wildlife Fund and sustainability activist Joan Bokaer, and ask him if they are "busted" too. I am asking Why are you ignoring things that don't fit your right-wing anti-light rail stereotype?

4. He confirms that he ignores them, by ignoring them! He posts three videos from his talking points.

There you have it. CONFIRMATION that Ken Avidor's strategy is to stereotype all PRT supporters as anti-light rail and right-wing, and ignore evidence to the contrary.

Updates

Followup, in which I open up a big ol' can of Eleanor Roosevelt on his ass: Ken Avidor hurls more mud, and hits: Allard K. Lowenstein's chief of staff (Emory Bundy, "a well-known hater of PRT").

Sad: If you Google a sheffer lang, the current #1 listing is Ken Avidor's "obit" for Lang. Here's a passage:

If anything characterized his career it was pure hatred of transit. He described buses as "no see ums" because to him, they were always empty. His style was confrontational, macho, take no prisoners. An aide to a St. Paul city councilmember said that every time she heard him talk she wanted to go home and shoot herself. Source

I- I'm having trouble smelling the memorial wreath.

Late late on June 2: He just can't discuss it anymore ("Whatever" #19)


gPRT

The Propagandist vs. Pancakes

This doesn't relate to PRT, but y'all will find this article amusing -- and sad. Thermidor applies his tactics to an artist he doesn't like:

Dan Lacey's bizarre pancake paintings land him fame beyond Gawker (City Pages)

Witness his sensitivity

The Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist is cutting-and-pasting his usual talking points on the forum at the Ithaca Journal -- the usual stuff, so I won't go into it here. But this excerpt made me look twice:

Imagine that slim guideway packed with pods each filled with standard-sized, 300 lbs [sic] Americans. Imagine the centrifugal force as the pods whipped around a corner at 40 mph. Without bracing, the slim poles would either bend or fall pulling the entire guideway down.

That is why the Raytheon PRT had massive posts and a big pipe for a guideways [sic].

Source

Ignore his made-up claims about structural engineering and Raytheon, and focus instead on this part:

filled with standard-sized, 300 lbs [sic] Americans

This jogged my memory about a graphic he did a few years ago:



What's his freaking problem with large people?

gPRT
Ken Avidor -- always Klassy with a K

The worst conspiracy ever

Recently we discussed the reasons why Kentweed the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist might be using conspiracy to advance his anti-innovation jihad. This time we will approach the question from a different angle:

How would a real conspiracy advance its agenda?

To review, what Labridor is alleging is that Personal Rapid Transit is an old, far-reaching conspiracy, stretching back to the 1970s. He claims it is a front, a scam, a stalking horse, for highway construction and automobile interests opposed to light rail -- including the right wing forces of Creationism!

There are some problems with this theory, not the least of which are:

• Light rail has undergone a revival since the 1970s; in fact, no light rail project has been canceled in favor of personal rapid transit
• In the 12 years they controlled the U.S. House, the Creationist party did not enact personal rapid transit legislation; nor did the Creationist party include personal rapid transit in its national platforms (on the other hand, the California Democrats' state platform has)
• No criminal or civil case has ever been filed by a government or transit agency claiming PRT fraud (i.e. a scam)
  
• In Minnesota, the Hiawatha light rail line was built and opened during the term of Dean Zimmermann, an ex-city council member and felon, whom Kenwood attacks for supporting PRT; and Zimmermann' s felony was not about PRT (see preceding point)
  
• In 21st century Europe, PRT has been adopted as a tool for transport and energy policy by the EU and Sweden, and received regulatory approval from Britain; European PRTs are being built or implemented by major profit-seeking companies
• PRT has been endorsed by the founder of the Congress for New Urbanism, and is being included by Foster+Partners (architect Norman Foster) in the plan for the world's first zero-waste city; that city, Masdar, will pair PRT with a light rail line!
  

And so on. Some conspiracy, right?

But whatever a conspiracy did, the conspirators would not create informational profiles about themselves on a public and wide-open professional networking website, describing their support of PRT in black and white, and then create links to each others' profiles.

That would make things so easy for any truthseeking conspiracy theorist. Even a stupid one.

Also: Definition of "a stupid one" -- one who links to one of his own blog posts, where the best things about it are the Comments!
And: Google sponsors the Advanced Transit Association! Google owns Blogger; Humidor blogs on Blogger --why is Humidor supporting Michele Bachmann???

gPRT
Ken Avidor is a grassy knoll

How about John Garamendi?

Remember John Garamendi, the Democratic Lieutenant Governor of California?

He met with a delegation from Sweden's IST (the podcar people) in January 2007. IST's visit followed a June 2006 memorandum of understanding between Sweden and California for an exchange on renewable fuel, energy and green transportation. Garamendi had only taken office on January 8, so the IST meeting was one of his first official acts as lieutenant governor. In April, IST met with Garamendi a second time.

Just more evidence disproving the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist's Talking Point that PRT is a right-wing anti-transit scam.

Is it possible this got started back in 2004, when Personal Rapid Transit appeared in the CalDems' platform?

The Propagandist gave the January meeting prominent coverage -- although he devoted his smearage to Swedish Environment Minister Andreas Carlgren.

Oddly, Labridor seemed to steer away from attacking Garamendi -- other than posting a photo (above) of him with Carlgren. Maybe Rodiva thought that'd put the fear of goddess into him.

Some background on Garamendi:

• Peace Corps, 1966-68 (Ethiopia)
• State Assemblyman (1974-76) and Senator (1976-90).
• First California insurance commissioner, 1991-95 and again 2003-07; backs universal health coverage
• Bruce Babbitt's Deputy Interior Secretary under Clinton; on the Clinton Administration negotiation team at the Kyoto Climate Change Conference; was one of the officials who sounded the alarm about the dangers to New Orleans of global climate change.
• In run for lieutenant governor, at the time was only candidate anywhere to receive endorsement from Al Gore.
• Currently being talked about as the Democratic nominee for governor in 2010.

And in case there are still lingering doubts as to Garamendi's Democratic bona fides, here is a video of his appearance on MSNBC, in which he slams Dubya's showboating on the California wildfires.



Yet to date Garamendi has not denounced PRT as a right-wing anti-transit scam. Clearly he is either (1) dumber than the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist, or (2) part of the conspiracy!

If he's not with Kenthorpe, he must be against him -- so Lt. Gov. John Garamendi is a PRTista, a tool of the anti-transit highway lobby! Is he one of those "left-wingers like Zimmermann"?

If so, shouldn't the Propagandist start smearing him straight away?

We're waiting!



gPRT
The Ken Avidor / soon we'll be making another run / the Ken Avidor promises something for everyone

See his Right Wing connection, Part III

Kiln Ovendoor the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist is up to his usual amusing antics.

His favorite smear of late seems to be 'only right wingers support PRT' (Case Closed, 10/18). Recall that he thinks real liberals have to support light rail. Now he's spewing it forth on the website of the Cornell Sun. He writes --

Mountains? More like Moehills [sic!] of Nonsense...

...Let's start with the one mentioned in this opinion piece - JPods:

Even 19-year-old Christopher (ATE) thinks it is a "very immature concept".

...of course, that fact doesn't stop the PRT promoters at Wikipedia from listing it on the Wikipedia PRT page.

Here's a picture of the JPod prototype from the JPod website... note the black duct tape on the windows and the "Support the Troops" sticker.

Will every JPod have a "Support the Troops" sticker?
Source
(ellipses in original)

Mr. Avidor clearly means the Support the Troops sticker means JPods people are right wing; PRT is right wing. Because of a sticker? But don't we all support the troops? It's the Bush policy three-quarters of us oppose. (Furthermore, why would JPods use a sticker to win right wing support, if right wingers are supposed to already support PRT?)

Why is Avidor, someone who says he's a Democrat, sniding support for the men and women in uniform? The Resmuglicans want Americans to think Democrats don't support the troops. Therefore, isn't the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist in fact supporting the right wing, Resmuglican position?

Nice going, Kenwood.

Part I | Part II | Part IV | Part V

gPRT
Ana Ken Avidor vita baby

Case Closed, or: I win the chess match

The Propagandist smears two liberal politicians

This is good! It's from the Seattle P-I Local Transit Forum. Long, but it's so worth it reading all the way to the Big Finish! (Skip to Big Finish)

Seattle PRT Proponents Excited by Daventry "PRT" Demo

#1496672

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/10/07 7:49 p.m.
Last edited at 10/10/07 7:50 p.m.

CETA member Prof. Schneider links to a BBC demo Video:

faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/whatsnew.htm

The Seattle PRT forum is excited about Daventry too:

groups.yahoo.com/group/seattleprt/message/2033

But, not the ordinary folks in Daventry:

dumpmarkolson.blogspot.com/2007/10/letters-to-editor-about-personal-rapid.html

...and the mayor of Daventry quit:

www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/Mayor-quits-in-dispute-over.3252012.jp
=============
#1496845

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 6:10 a.m. in reply to: #1496672

The Guardian goes Gadgetbahn:

"The Morgantown Personal Rapid Transit project is completed in West Virginia, connecting the city's five university campuses. Purists argue that it is light rail, not PRT"

www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/oct/11/guardianweeklytechnologysection.news1

Seattle's David Gow (Mr Grant) is upset:

innovative-transit.blogspot.com/2007/10/hello-minnesota-6th-congressional.html

...and in Daventry:

"Be positive about Pods":

www.daventrytoday.co.uk/sectionhome.aspx?sectionID=9073
=============
#1496874

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 8:44 a.m. in reply to: #1496845

www.daventrytoday.co.uk/news/Get-off-our-backs-and.3365283.jp

'Get off our backs and give us a chance'

By Alice Dyer

DAVENTRY Town Council has hit back at claims it is 'dysfunctional'.
The comments were made in last week’s Daventry Express by Chris Millar, leader of Daventry District Council, following the shock resignation of town mayor Alan Gauton.

He also said there must be something ‘rotten at the core’ of the body, and called for council members to stop squabbling and start serving the public.

Lynne Taylor, town council leader said Cllr’s Millar’s comments were ‘totally unfounded’ and ‘inappropriate’

“To seek to denigrate a public authority and its members without any direct knowledge of the manner in which it conducts its business is improper,” she said.

Mr Gauton quit his role as mayor and chairman of the council because he was unhappy with how the authority was being run.

His departure followed a string of councillors and staff members quitting the authority.

Cllr Taylor admitted the town council had suffered problems recently, but added Daventry was being served by a ‘dynamic’ mix of people dedicated to serving the public.

“So Daventry District Council get off our backs. Give us a chance to show what we can do for the people of Daventry,” she said.

The town council, which currently has five empty seats, was set up four years ago to look after services like hanging baskets, Christmas lights, the war memorial and allotments. It receives more than £300,000 a year of taxpayers’ money.

....how much of that money was spent hosting the PRT pod people?
=============
#1496881

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 9:14 a.m. in reply to: #1496874

www.daventrytoday.co.uk/news/Decay-of-forgotten-estate.3366026.jp

Decay of 'forgotten' estate

By Alice Dyer

WHILE the rest of the town seems to be heading for prosperity, residents living on a Daventry estate feel they have been forgotten.

As Daventry District Council continues to reveal ambitious plans for the future, including state-of-the-art transport systems, new homes, shops and 21st century facilities, residents say The Grange has been left to fall apart.

Ann Smith, chairman of the Grange Residents’ Association, said: “The estates have been left to go into disrepair. Some parts of The Grange look like a slum.

“The council wants the people of Daventry to be proud of the town they live in, but how can they when it’s like this? It’s like a dumping area now and it’s a mess.”

The Daventry Express visited the estate this week with Mrs Smith and Daventry district councillor Colin Poole to see the worst affected areas.

The whole estate is showing signs of serious neglect with broken paving slabs, vast amounts of weeds, broken benches, damage to the children’s play area, inadequate lighting, bushes growing over walkways and litter.

Walls have been smashed, tiles are falling off walkways and garage doors are hanging off. There is graffiti, boarded up windows and doors, broken fences and glass and children’s toys, furniture and other household items which have been dumped in the street.

Mrs Smith said: “I’m angry – we should not have to live in this squalor.
=============
#1500204

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 11:26 a.m. in reply to: #1496881

Why don't you quote the rest of the "Mrs Smith" article, instead of cherrypicking?

"I've lived on The Grange for 30 years and at one time I was so proud to have a house here, but over the past 10 to 15 years, I've watched it go down hill.["]

10 to 15 years! PRT planning in Daventry is 2-3 years old at most. You can't blame PRT for inattentive local government. Read more
=============
#1500354

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 3:16 p.m. in reply to: #1500204

Here's some more letters from Daventry...

Pod scheme is up in the air

It will be interesting to see how close the test track along Eastern Way for the proposed new transport system comes to reality.

A brief investigation will show that from a safety standpoint any new PRT system will have to be completely separate from existing pedestrian and vehicle routes.

The potential supplier's own web site states that where the track passes over roads there has to be 5.7 metres of headroom and for pedestrian transit 2.5 metres of headroom.

They also estimate that in an urban environment, such as Daventry, over 90 per cent of the system will have to be elevated. So if the system gets approval, much of it including the stations, will be almost 20 feet up in the air!

How much of the test track will be at this level?

Allan Simmonds
Drayton

Living in Disneyland?

I wonder if the people of Daventry share the enthusiasm of the council for the proposed PRT system reported last week.
At an estimated cost of £80 million, which will be inevitably optimistic, the comment "the officers in Daventry have the will and motivation to try something that has never been tried before" raises questions about the council's expertise and judgement.

Coming on top of the proposed marina and canal link, would we be wrong in asking whether the councillors are spending too much time on 'Disneyland' dreams instead of concentrating on the town and county management?

It would also be interesting to hear from them where the funds are coming from for the project; the recent conference and the consultancy firm instructed. Personally, I have considerable doubts about the practicalities of the scheme anyway.

G. Pearse
Highlands Drive,
Daventry

Town is world leader already

Daventry needn't worry about this new pod travel system – as it is already a leader! Leader of the highest petrol prices that is!
For the last four or five months the petrol prices at all garages in Daventry have stayed the same – they do not compete.

The petrol price has gone down everywhere else but Daventry! In the last month I have found petrol in Devon, Somerset, Essex and central London considerably cheaper (up to 5p a litre less) – surprising as the latter two are supposed to be more expensive to live in! Even petrol on the motorway services is the same as Daventry's or cheaper.

Why are we allowing ourselves to be ripped off?
Lets see some competition between the local garages!
G Bottomley
Elder Drive
Daventry

Tackle the real issues

Well done Daventry District Council, yet another brilliant idea...not!
Pods – well at least the kids will have something to do surfing, shooting, burning and wrecking the pods as they go round.

If there's £80 million on offer why not develop something for them to do, bin these crazy ideas and stop this town going completely down the toilet.

There is too much housing, too many people and so very little to do. I've lived in this town for 39 years and watched it slowly be destroyed by the local council who don't have the town's real population at heart. No police, broken roads, run-down estates, feral kids – these are the issues that need addressing not some hare-brained scheme like pods.
Wake up and smell the coffee DDC.

Name and address
supplied

Nice idea but wrong scheme

I have no wish to run down everything Daventry District Council comes up with and indeed it should be applauded for its forward thinking because, like it or not, oil will run out eventually and we must look for alternative soloutions to the car as we know it.
But I have to say I can not really see the pod as a realistic answer because if you think about it a horse and cart, although a lot slower, would be a better form of transport taking you closer to your home and using or causing very little carbon emission.

The pod system is bound to fail while there are still cars giving the public door-to-door conection and if you try to stop the entrance of cars to our shopping centre, people will simply go else where thus killing the town centre.

Leslie Weatherley
Via email
=============
#1500482

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 4:49 p.m. in reply to: #1500354

Of course there are skeptical letterwriters. It's a British national pastime.

I think you forgot this story though: "Pods prove a huge hit"

Oh wait, you didn't forget -- you ignored it, you naughty cherrypicker you.
=============
#1500653

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 8:25 p.m. in reply to: #1500482

Cherrypicking?

That's what PRT guru J. Edward Anderson said would be the SOP for getting passengers off disabled PRT pods:

Mr. Springer: Is there an evacuation plan

Mr. Ed Anderson: Yes. With cherrypickers, ropes, etc.

www.midtowngreenway.org/programs/transit/Streetcar_cmte_minutes_March_8_2004.htm

BTW... Does anyone know if David Gow is paid to promote PRT?
=============
#1500669

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 8:54 p.m. in reply to: #1500653

So? That kind of cherrypicker is a very safe basket on an arm mounted to a big truck. People use them every day. There are also scissors lifts you can put on trucks too.

But everyone who knows PRT (and isn't a PRTphobe) knows Anderson's preferred evacuation plan is for another vehicle to push the breakdown to the next station.

Why so concerned about my compensation, [K#n]? Just puttin' out a general call for snitches now, eh? Would it help if I bought a copy of your book?
=============
#1500688

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 9:20 p.m. in reply to: #1500669

Another great answer from J. Edward Anderson:

Question: How do we deal with squirrels, birds, raccoons, etc.?

Answer: Small creatures could nest in the bottom corners of my covered guideway without bothering anything. But, the plan is to build a maintenance vehicle equipped with a light, a television camera, and a high-pressure hose. It will be operated from time to time late at night to inspect the guideway interior to remove debris.

Right, lots of cities are going to want a transportation system that rains soggy critters etc. on pedestrians, buildings and vehicles.
=============
#1500696

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 9:35 p.m. in reply to: #1500688

[K#n], you've just given an argument that can also be used to argue that (in your language) "Telephone Poles Are a Joke" and "Power Lines Are a Joke." No one's going to want electricity infrastructure that birds can sit on and poop on your head, or that rain can drip off of!

In fact, why don't you go all the way and call your new blog "Any Tall Thing, That Something Can Fall From Onto Another Thing, is a Joke"?

Prediction: your next talking point in this thread will be PRT can't run in the snow.
=============
#1500852

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 6:19 a.m. in reply to: #1500696

Not my "talking point". I read about it it from the Taxi 2000 Corporation prospectus (Risk Factors):

"This technology [Ultra] is different in many respects from the Taxi 2000 technology and has some distinct disadvantages. It uses a larger and heavier guideway that we believe will be more obtrusive and more expensive. It uses larger cars that we believe will be more expensive. Because it uses rotary propulsion and braking, it cannot operate in ice and snow conditions and cannot run at the close headways planned for the Taxi 2000 system. Because it uses battery power, it is speed limited. At this point it lacks a complete control system, as well as other vital features of a commercial product."

BTW... is Morrie Anderson still CEO of Taxi 2000?
=============
#1500877

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 6:58 a.m. in reply to: #1500696
Last edited at 10/16/07 7:00 a.m.

... of course, the Taxi 2000 vehicle is unsuited for snow too. The way the sloping roof opens with the door would dump snow (and water if raining) onto the passengers... see photo:

i24.tinypic.com/20zz88g.jpg

Clearly, the Taxi 2000 pod was designed more to look "futuristic" than practical. Knowing that, the question is why are PRT promoters working so hard to promote it and who is paying them and why?
=============
#1500913

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 9:23 a.m. in reply to: #1500852

You mean the Risk Factors document you claimed revealed safety concerns that make PRT unworkable? And then had to backpedal when it turned out to be a standard investor safe harbor statement? Two years ago? Ahhahahahaha!
=============
#1500921

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 9:36 a.m. in reply to: #1500877

the Taxi 2000 vehicle is unsuited for snow too. The way the sloping roof opens with the door would dump snow (and water if raining) onto the passengers

Do you know the difference between a prototype and a production model? How WOULD one deal with such a problem? Hmmm... I don't know... how about a gutter, like on the edge of a car roof?

Prediction: your next Talking Point will be PRT doesn't have air conditioning. Instead, why not surf over to Vectus.se, where the new video includes a nice shot of the cabin's HVAC panel.

I must say, [K#n], you are up to your usual quality standards. Recently I corresponded with someone who wrote that he did not respond to your disinformation 2 years ago, because he thought it would help you sharpen your arguments. He is so pleased to have been proven wrong.
=============
#1500970

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 11:01 a.m. in reply to: #1500921
Last edited at 10/16/07 11:04 a.m.

That Vectus "HVAC panel" is in a dangerous position for heating a small pod. The lack of headroom means somebody could get a nasty burn on their head if they bumped into it or comes close to it... which is exactly what happens in this video:

prt.blip.tv/

The HVAC on the top also means cold feet... maybe not a problem in Seattle, but it would be in Minnesota where it can get pretty darn cold.

Also, it seems PRT is losing support even among the far right-wing of the MN Republican Party:

anti-strib.blogspot.com/2007/10/prt-can-it-be-real-progressive-solution.html

DFL candidate Elwyn Tinklenberg's campaign told me they will challenge Congresswoman Michele Bachmann on her support for PRT.

So, who are the public officials in Minnesota who support PRT these days, Mr. Gow?
=============
#1500984

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 11:17 a.m. in reply to: #1500970

[K#n], you are really making it up now! The HVAC panel will put out enough heat for the small space -- they won't be using it to make stir-fry.

What's more, Vectus is being designed to satisfy SWEDISH weather conditions.

As for Tinklenberg, I wish him luck.
=============
#1501105

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 1:39 p.m. in reply to: #1500984

I'm sure you do...

Elwyn Tinklenberg was Transportation Commissioner under Jesse Ventura. Tinklenberg had to put up with anti-LRT, pro-PRT arguments from PRTpromoters like David Morris:

www.ilsr.org/columns/1999/111499.html

Is David Morris still a supporter of PRT now that LRT is a huge success in Minnesota?
=============
#1501119

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:01 p.m. in reply to: #1501105
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:03 p.m.

Morris? Why don't call him up and ask him? Or have you given him the Larry Fabian treatment?

Are we really going to keep doing this thing we do? You resurrect some old talking point, I knock it down again, you drop it and raise another one, I debunk that one too? I have nothing but time.

But if it would be more convenient, I have an offer for you. I could design for you a web page that lists all your propaganda in numerical order. Then when you want to troll at, for example, Daily Kos, you can just type "Number 4!" and link to it. Or when you want to ask how I make a living, "Does anyone know if David Gow is Number 17?"

Anyway, it's just an idea. Let me know.
=============
#1501131

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 2:16 p.m. in reply to: #1501119

Why can't you view the Daily Kos story on Podcars anymore?

Was the guy who posted that Daily Kos Podcar story the Mayor of Fountain Valley, CA?

Y'know... this guy?:

www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31655
=============
#1501137

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:26 p.m. in reply to: #1500970
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:31 p.m.

[K#n], I knew you'd want to have this information about your "no headroom" talking point (prt.blip.tv) ASAP.

Why should this reporter have trouble when others didn't?

Putting on my old TV Production hat, it is obvious what happened. The cameraman was standing outside and had her framed too high. Being a good TV reporter, she did her best to stay in frame and stood upright too soon.

Should you be able to stand up straight inside? Why? All rides on PRT are intended to be seated.

This was my official debunking of the "no headroom" Talking Point; please make a note of it.
=============
#1501138

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:29 p.m. in reply to: #1501131
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:33 p.m.

Why can't you view the Daily Kos story on Podcars anymore?

The post-conference article has been reposted on Google Groups in Transport-Innovators, and in SeattlePRT on Yahoo Groups. Sorry, your trolling seems to have been omitted.

But, I saved a copy of the whole page; I can send it to you if you want.

Hope this helps!
=============
#1501449

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 4:53 a.m. in reply to: #1501138

Interesting:

en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ossified&curid=12934900&diff=165091706&oldid=165084034

Why is he so upset?
=============
#1501514

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 9:18 a.m. in reply to: #1501449
Last edited at 10/17/07 9:22 a.m.

Not "upset"; try "outraged." He explains why right there in the Wiki Diff.

Sorry, but what does this have to do with any of the things you have brought up in this thread? Try picking one, and stick to discussing it with others until you understand what you've gotten wrong.

Unless your purpose is not to discuss or understand, but rather just to simply regurgitate Talking Points?
=============
#1501536

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 10:00 a.m. in reply to: #1501514

You agree then with this blogger?:

www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?p=1454#comment-17778
=============
#1501558

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 10:46 a.m. in reply to: #1501536

Agree with what? That you do a fair bit of wiki-editing? I wasn't aware there was any doubt about that. Need me to stipulate to that? OK; or as you would say -- "Whatever."

Again, pick a subject and stick to it. Add to that: be clear.
=============
#1501625

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 12:27 p.m. in reply to: #1501558

Wasn't Cincinnati supposed to get a PRT system? What happened with that?

Oh, never mind:

news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071015/NEWS01/310150043

Cincinnati will unveil plans Tuesday on how to pay for a four-mile, $100 million downtown streetcar line that advocates believe will contribute $2 billion to the city’s economy and transform Over-the-Rhine.

The plan’s cheerleaders include politicians, transit activists and urban developers.

Guess all that "debunking" didn't convince anyone.
=============
#1501727

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 2:53 p.m. in reply to: #1501625

Kenwood, stop pretending you don't know what happened with Cincinnati.

Coy is not clever.
=============
#1501851

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 6:31 p.m. in reply to: #1501727

I thought you would know. The Skyloop website is still up, but it hasn't been updated for a while:

www.skyloop.org/news.htm

Is Forward Quest going to try to bring up PRT again?
=============
#1501875

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 7:39 p.m. in reply to: #1501851

Stop pretending you haven't known the answer to that question since on or before Sept. 26, 2006.

That's two Skyloop questions in a row though. Way to stay focused.
=============
#1501908

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 8:32 p.m. in reply to: #1501875

Thank you for reminding me to stay on topic... back to PRT in Daventry:

www.daventrytoday.co.uk/letters/Straight-out-of-Springfield.3387864.jp

Straight out of Springfield

This whole 'pod' scheme rings a bell to me. I think DDC has been watching too many episodes of the Simpsons. Episode 71 to be exact, entitled 'Marge Vs. the Monorail'.

The plot focuses around the town of Springfield buying a monorail from a conman, which ends in disaster! By the looks of the size of these pods, you won't fit in them with any shopping and if you have a buggy you can forget it! Does this also mean that the Daventry Dart drivers will be out of a job?

I agree with the recent letters in the Gusher – the pods will just get wrecked by the rogue kids of Daventry.

It's about time they stopped skipping with the pixies and thought about a bowling complex, cinema or something similar for families and teenagers alike to do in their spare time. Let's face it, there's nothing else to do in this town!

The pods are just another thing to add onto the 'list of stupidity' by the council alongside a marina with no canal. If it has the money for the pods why doesn't it have the money to build the canal? It's about time it started asking the residents what they would like, instead of trying to get on the 'global map'. We may be on the map as Cllr Millar states, but it will be as a laughing stock, not for anything great.

T Nairn
Braunston Road
Daventry
Last Updated: 17 October 2007 3:55 PM
=============
#1501921

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 8:46 p.m. in reply to: #1501908

Ohhhh! 'PRT is like the Simpsons monorail episode' -- how original!

Your point is that this is the level of debate that should decide public policy questions? I shall make a note of it.
=============
#1502066

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 9:03 a.m. in reply to: #1501921

Please do... and please also make a note of this item from today's SC Times:

www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071018/NEWS01/110180029/1009

"Severson and Rep. Mark Olson, R-Big Lake, called for new approaches to funding and for studying transportation alternatives, such as a system of elevated rails on which small pods travel a fixed route, known as Personal Rapid Transit.

Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?
=============
#1502085

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 9:50 a.m. in reply to: #1502066
Last edited at 10/18/07 9:52 a.m.

Hmmm, that rings a bell; why does this sound so familiar -- oh yeah, more Talking Points.

Your conspiracy theory doesn't work -- PRT-endorser EU is not right-wing. [PRT]-developing Sweden is not right-wing. Peter Calthorpe of the Congress for New Urbanism is not right-wing. The Short Elliott firm you hate so much gives more to Democrats. PRT has appeared in a state Democratic platform, but no state GOP platforms that I can find. Where was the federal PRT legislation during the 13 years the Resmuglicans controlled Congress?

Want to dump Smoochy Bachmann and Slappy Olson? I hope you do. But PRT is still just a technology. And you are, like today's weather, all wet.
=============
#1502186

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 1:58 p.m. in reply to: #1502066
Last edited at 10/18/07 2:00 p.m.

Hey Nedken,

I knows you loves your Flash videos, so you and your fan club should watch this one of Gus Ayer (you know, the guy you spammed at Daily Kos) at the Uppsala conference. He talks about using PRT to do sustainable smart development and reduce automobile use. In the Q&A he also decries the right-wing news media.

Then watch this video of the other politician who spoke in favor of PRT -- an Uppsala official from the Social Democrats. That's the democratic socialists, Kenworth.

Are THEY liberals, Mr. [Av!d@r]?

Lots of other videos from the conference too.
=============
#1502204

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 3:01 p.m. in reply to: #1502186

There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now.

PRT has no support among the DFL leadership in the MN Legislature.

Thanks for that Podcar page, Mr. Gow. I especially liked the presentation by Chris Perkins of Unimodal/Skytran... funny when his computer crashed.

He mentioned grants from the USDOT and NASA for Unimodal... is that true? I can't find anything about it on the web.

Thanks again.
=============
#1502215

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 3:27 p.m. in reply to: #1502204
Last edited at 10/18/07 3:36 p.m.

"left-wingers like Zimmermann"

So liberals who support PRT, from anywhere in the world, are corrupt?

That is a smear of breathtaking proportions, and a conspiracy of impossible complexity.

My post specifically asked you about Ayer, and Pelling of Uppsala. Do you have any proof they are corrupt?
=============
#1502353

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 9:08 p.m. in reply to: #1502215

I was only talking about Zimmermann.

www.careerbuilder.com/monk-e-mail/?mid=23887027
=============
#1502405

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 10:41 p.m. in reply to: #1502353
Last edited at 10/18/07 10:44 p.m.

No, I'm afraid you can't get out of it that easily. Rewind:

1. You wrote @1502066 "Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?" Which is part of your Talking Point that only right-wingers support PRT.

2. @1502186 I wrote about Gus Ayer and the "Uppsala official" Pelling, and asked you "Are THEY liberals, Mr. [Labridor]?"

3. Your answer immediately following @1502204: "There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now." Anyone who knows your 'work' knows this means Zimmermann was convicted for taking bribes.

Your meaning clearly was Ayer and Pelling are like Zimmermann, corrupt.

4. After I called you on this smear, your excuse @1502353: "I was only talking about Zimmermann." REALLY? You were answering a question about Ayer and Pelling! Why then bring up the corrupt Zimmermann at all?

The fact, Kenthorpe, is that you have no evidence that PRT is a right wing anti-transit conspiracy, you never have, and you never will. When shown liberals who support PRT you smear them. Your 'strategy' is nothing more than smearing any PRT supporter and adding them to your list of conspirators.

You are just like the right wingers you claim to oppose: when challenged with truth and facts you attack the messenger.

Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

=============

Hope you enjoyed it!

The thread in the P-I Forum (while it lasts, they clear old threads)

Oct. 19 -- The last entry has been deleted! Who ran crying to mommy this time??? (I have reposted an edited version, we'll see what happens)

Here is the repost:

#1502634

No, I'm afraid you can't get out of it that easily. Rewind:

1. You wrote @1502066 "Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?" Which is part of your Talking Point that only right-wingers support PRT.

2. @1502186 I wrote about Gus Ayer and the "Uppsala official" Pelling, and asked you "Are THEY liberals, Mr. [MN anti-PRT propagandist]?"

3. Your answer immediately following @1502204: "There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now." Anyone who knows your 'work' knows this means Zimmermann was convicted for taking bribes.

4. After I called you on this, your excuse @1502353: "I was only talking about Zimmermann." REALLY? You were answering a question about Ayer and Pelling! Why then bring up the corrupt Zimmermann at all?

The fact is that you have no evidence that PRT is a right wing anti-transit conspiracy, do you?

It doesn't exist, even though you've had this and other opportunities to present it.

Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

Oct. 21-- He can't wait to tar Ithaca liberal with the Zimmermann brush; maybe it's artistic envy?

gPRT
Ken Avidor keeps his face in a jar by the door