Fact-Checking the "PRT Boondoggle" Blog
A project of the PRT NewsCenter
Showing posts with label his ego. Show all posts
Showing posts with label his ego. Show all posts

Saturday, January 09, 2010

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

Are you following the pot's latest exercise at calling the kettle black?

Ken Avidor started the whole thing at PRT Moondoggie on January 7, by lying about the activities of Mike Carrato, aka Transenth and author of WeinerWatch:

Yonah Freemark had a post about PRT on the Transport Politic blog last month. Freemark said the following about the veracity of the PRT promoters:
Over the years, most attempts at implementing PRT have failed due to a lack of interest from investors — and as a result of deceptive, dishonest campaigns by “pod people” who simply promise too much.
...Many of the pro-PRT comments came from "Mike C" (Michael Carrato), formerly "A Transportation Enthusiast" , author of the Weinerwatch blog and other nasty stuff on the blogosphere and on Wikipedia.
...
The fact that the PRT industry tolerates and encourages Carrato's activities should suggest that it is not an industry at all, but a deception... a distraction from the real-world transportation choices public officials and citizens face.
Of course Avidor is totally distorting Carrato's modus operandi. What Carrato does is offer accessible and research-based explanations to conceptual and technical questions about PRT. But only when a commenter is openly confrontational and factually wrong does Carrato respond in kind.

Therefore on January 8, Carrato responded to Avidor by having a little fun, writing about Ken and his longtime friend and co-blogger, the federal fugitive Mark Knapp:
So anyway, I was looking for an different angle on this hilarious development, and I started thinking about Ken Avidor , the self-styled investigative reporter who claims to have "exposed the PRT scam". Ken Avidor, who thinks "LIM" is a PRT company, when it is actually a type of electric motor. Ken Avidor, who looked at a 10 year old satellite photo of ULTra PRT's test track site and claimed it had been bullozed (hint: the photo was taken before the track was built).

Yes, we've all had fun watching Avidor's sometimes bumbling, always inaccurate, "investigations" through the years. But with the Knapp revelation, Avidor took bumbling to a new level. Think about it: the whole time Avidor was investigating all the so-called "crooks and liars" of the PRT world, his best friend and blog partner was allegedly using stolen credit cards, and Avidor never even noticed!

So when they went out to dinner and Knapp was always picking up the check, wouldn't you think Avidor would get suspicious? Where was this luddite Green getting all this spending money? And why was he signing his credit slips "Mr. Nussbaum"?

No, Avidor didn't notice, and I'm not surprised in the least. I mean, if he can't even understand the concept of a dated satellite photo, is he ever going to grasp a high tech crime like identity theft? Of course not. So when I read that Avidor claimed he had no idea about Knapp, I believed him 100%. I'll even testify on his behalf if he wants me to, that's how convinced I am of Avidor's complete lack of skill as an investigative reporter.

Source

"Mr. Nussbaum"! HA!

I know it's hard to believe (or maybe not) but Ken Avidor, the shameless propagandist who has been lying about PRT and impugning the motives of PRT supporters all these years, actually is offended by Carrato's obviously satirical post! As we have seen before, Ken Einstein can't let anything drop, so he blogged in response:
...This is an email from Michael Carrato of Buffalo, New York, responding to the previous post:
Ken,

I just wanted to thank you for your recent posts mentioning my name. Maybe it's vanity, but I'm really happy I revealed myself to you and I get a little thrill every time you mention me. Maybe I'll even get my 15 minutes out of this! :-)
...
Also, what's going on with the whole Mark Knapp thing? Surely you realize that your association with him all those years is pretty damning, right? And aren't you supposed to be some sort of investigative reporter? How could an investigative reporter spend so much time collaborating with Knapp and NOT be aware of his illegal activities? Either you aren't a very good reporter... or you were in on it! I'll assume the latter, since I already know that's true. :-)

[Avidor added the bold]
Ken Avidor also replied to Carrato by email, whining: "You have made serious, false and defamatory statements concerning me."

Have you, dear readers, noticed the hilarious thing? The WeinerWatch post being satirical commentary, the only thing really defamatory is the followup statement "I'll assume the latter, since I already know that's true."

Which was in a private email. Which Avidor made public by posting it on PRT Moondoggie.

Can he sue himself for defamation?

the City of Irvine, CA, has apologized for



gPRT Hey Ken, I bet you can find a Mr. or Mrs. Nussbaum who will sue

Monday, January 04, 2010

Head of the Klass

Editor's note: We're keeping the change! Yup, we're going to make permanent our change in editorial policy: the Name of the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist will now be shown -- although special formattingwill be used.

The Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist started 2010 with a shock! As in Ken Avidor is shocked, shocked he is, that anyone pro-PRT might have something not-nice to say about him:

Keep it Klassy, PRT Dudes!
From the Transport Innovators forum:
I have always thought that Avodor was being paid by somebody to "prove" that PRT won't work, and now we know.

The very fact that he thinks Morgantown is PRT shows how little he actually knows, and that statements like "all PRT systems to date have been failures" shows that also. Here is a message from me to him:

Hey, Stupid, there have not been any PRT systems actually tried, so how can they be failures? The first is being tested now at Heathrow, and first reports indicate that it will be a success. Aren't you going to have a lot of Crow to eat when it begins to spread elsewhere? Who is going to pay you anything afterwards? Maybe you can get a job cleaning toilets somewhere.

Jack Slade
I'm curious whether Mr. Slade is the would-be PRT vendor listed on the City of San Jose website.

"Klassy"? And how many Jack Slades does he think there are in the PRT world? Come on now. This offends the guy who ridiculed Americans as fat because they drive a car ("standard-size, 300 lbs [sic] Americans")? Who calls babies in car seats and strollers "automorphed"? Who equates teenagers with street drunks, prostitutes and drug dealers?

By contrast, let's read through Mr. Slade's supposedly 'klassless' quote. What precisely is supposed to be objectionable -- the implication of monetary gain? The namecalling? Ken Avidor has said far worse about PRT supporters, for instance repeatedly demanding to know my source of income, famously swearing at Larry Fabian, and freely flinging such insults as wacky, loony, cultish, unhinged, nutcases, deluded and fanatics.

In order to make a claim that a PRT company official is anti-transit, Ken Avidor even went so far as to link that official -- falsely -- to responsibility for a multi-fatality train accident.

Ken has never apologized for these outrages. Those targeted by his attacks -- or anyone at all -- are blocked from leaving comments on his blogs.

In this instance, Avidor's tactic is obvious: to play the victim and point a finger at Slade. And hope San Jose DOT notices and downgrades Slade's response to the PRT RFI. Business as usual for Ken Avidor.

Ken, what did you mean by:


"Polish PRT?"

Ken Avidor (@Daily Kos)
read the PRTJJ coverage


He also distorted today:
The Daventry UK podcar program is on hold due to the global recession. But Ken Avidor wants you to think it was because PRT is "an imaginary mode of transport" that ripped off the town (he also implies transit shouldn't be expensive to plan)



gPRT Ken Avidor: the Flucker of Fling

Friday, December 18, 2009

What We Learned - What do you expect from a Luddite?

Editor's note: We continue beta-testing the change to one of the oldest editorial policies of "PRT is a Joke" IS A JOKE. For a limited time, The Name of the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist will be shown -- although special formatting will be used.
Everyone knows how Twitter works, right? It's a microblog service -- like any other blog you can have, except the posts are a maximum of 140 characters at a time. So what is this PRT Moondoggie post all about???


It's all delusional. Delusional!


• "Several PRT websites"
Two. I administer two serious PRT websites, Get On Board PRT and GetThereFast, and they are not devoted to Ken Avidor. It's not all about you, Ken .

• "several attack blogs aimed at me"
This is just spin by someone who knows his propaganda does not stand up under the light of debunking.

• I think my "activity on Twitter is private"
Laughable! If I thought my tweets were private, to whom was I telling all those Avidor-based one-liners (which are comedy gold, by the way)?
Or pick another tweet topic: #inews9k, the as-it-happens, Twitter version of my almost-weekly blog feature, "iNews 9000 Turbo wi-fi headline translator." It used to be on my blog Wiseline Institute and Center For The Secular Humorism, but for almost 2 years it's been running at Ragebot.
Here's the thing: at the end of each week I cull the best of my on-Twitter #inews and post them on Ragebot --
with an invitation to readers to read all the #inews ON TWITTER!--



I'm driving visitors to my Twitter feed, whether they Follow me or not. Ken Avidor: why would I make such an open invitation if I thought my tweets are private? The blog you're reading right now has the same invitation in the sidebar!

Where would anyone get such an idea, that tweets are private? It has the feel of an ego-driven notion. Therefore, my theory is that Ken Avidor is merely projecting -- that he himself thought tweets are private, and only learned the truth recently, and now he's going to show off his high-tech knowledge. He is, after all, the 'expert' who thought "LIM" is a PRT company.

• "furiously tweeting that he was being sarcastic"
He posted this as 'evidence':
Another example of Ken Avidor not reading what he clips (or absence of a sense of humor) -- those are the jokes, Ken! Those are one-liners! Thus the #badumbum hashtag! And you didn't even include the tweet with the "DOPE" pic!

Ken also urges the following:
David Gow (Blogger ID- Mr_Grant) is very much the public face of Personal Rapid Transit on the internet. I hope Governor Pawlenty, MnDOT Commissioner Tom Sorel and elected officials take a good look at PRT promoters like David Gow before they waste additional time or money on PRT.

Thank you, Ken! Thank you for associating PRT with me, a smart, liberal blogger, world-class satirist, and environmentalist! Of course, Gov. Pawlenty is a Resmuglican, so maybe Avidor's Palin-style questioning of my associations would make The Gov oppose rider-oriented, energy smart PRT on partisan political grounds.

Did I just blow your strategy, Ken?

Of course, that plan closes the barn door too late. If I am already "the public face of PRT on the internet," then Commissioner Sorel (and maybe new PRT Director Thakur) already know about me. And went ahead with the PRT initiative anyway.

And they did so even though they must have known about Ken Avidor and all his anti-PRT propaganda -- because he is very much the public face of opposition to PRT on the internet.

I'm afraid you lose again,
Ken, no matter how you slice it.


Oh why not: "Audacity of the Dope"!

I nearly forgot: Ken, what did you mean by:


"Polish PRT?"

Ken Avidor (@Daily Kos)
read the PRTJJ coverage


gPRT

Wednesday, January 16, 2008

End of an era for Personal Rapid Transit

I love that headline, because the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist used it in 2006, on the occasion of a failed attempt by the ineffectual Rep. Slappy Olson to attach PRT to a bonding measure. A dramatic headline to be sure, but he forgot to indicate what era, exactly, had ended. It was just a chance for him to list a number of setbacks for PRT, and sneer 'losers' at its backers.

Now, however, "end of an era" could never be more appropos. For last Sunday our old Luddite friend announced, announced and announced that he was taking a break from all his worries. At Dump Mark Olson:

If Anyone is Still Reading....

In keeping with my New Years [sic] resolution not to spend a lot of time on the internet, I'm not going to blog here anymore.

The statistics don't justify me posting and nobody is paying me to flog a dead horse for the few readers who bother to read DMO.

I probably will add one more update when Rep. Mark Olson is officially dumped at the polls.

Until then, the blog will remain as a resource for opposition research.

At Dump Bachmann:
Hello I must be going...

I made a New Years [sic] resolution to spend a lot less time on the internet and get more artwork done.

What I found out is that it wasn't that easy to cut down. Somebody would send me something wacky about Bachmann and there I was composing, uploading... instead of drawing and inking.

I have to go cold turkey... so I've asked Eva to take away my ability to post on DB.

I began blogging at DB because the media was not reporting all the bizarre, wacky spectacle [sic] stuff Bachmann did and said.

The Dump Bachmann Team has done an amazing job of setting the record straight on Michele Bachmann and I'm satisfied that I have achieved the goals I had when I started blogging on DB way back.

The good news is that DB has excellent contributers [sic] from the 6th CD now. More good news is that there are two strong candidates in the DFL. Either Elwyn Tinklenberg or Bob Olson has a good chance of defeating Bachmann in November.

It's been interesting... but, I must be going....

[ellipses in original]

At Lloydletta:
Back to the Artwork...

...Eva has been gracious for letting me post non-Bachmann stuff on Lloydletta also.

Awww, cute. He's resigning to spend more time with his cartoon family.

But wait -- what's missing from Washingdor's Farewell Address(es)? That's right: he forgot to mention his vendetta against personal rapid transit!

That's really an amazing omission. What's it been -- five years? From his first anti-PRT cartoon, to the Light Rail Now disinformation paper Cyberspace Dream -- the Code of Hammurabi of anti-PRT propaganda -- to the Roblog skirmishes, his wholesale vandalism at Wikipedia, the time-wasting Wikipedia adjudications, the smears against PRT proponents, objective journalists and progressive officials, to the breathtakingly error-riddled and biased "reporting," the man has expended a massive amount of energy lobbying against innovation. Or amassed a huge store of bad karma.

Kenwood quitting blogging and not mentioning PRT is like winning an Oscar and forgetting to thank your spouse. I like this metaphor; I'll keep it.

You try to make up for it later at the post-ceremony confab, but the tabloids, Entertainment Tonight and People talk up the gaffe and, inevitably, it's Splitsville.

The problem is, the estranged spouse supported you for all those years before you became Big, and now this is how you say thanks?

Him being Big is the reason. He's Big because of PRT. All over the internet he's the PRT Skeptic! Perhaps the leading skeptic! An expert! In Minnesota politics he's the guy who only cares about how candidates stand on PRT!

I think I was right -- he sees the first PRTs are coming to England and Sweden, and he's nervous (Tick tock, 12/18). All his past claims -- especially PRT doesn't exist -- are about to become as obsolete as a rotary phone. Who can blame him for wanting to put some distance between himself and his anti-PRT past?

Yes: if he really means it, his exit is the end of an era indeed. PRT systems will launch; some will succeed, some will fail -- like all things man-made. Some PRT will achieve policy objectives, some won't. That's life.

PRT will also be discussed and debated. But one thing is virtually certain: it now has the chance to be discussed accurately, on its merits, rather than as a political bogeyman.

So now what? He's not the only one tired of battle; so am I. I for one would be curious what the ex-Propagandist thinks about other important issues of the day. Maybe someday we'll meet. We might talk about art, politics, or travel. What kind of light system does he have on his bicycle? What does he think makes a good cocktail?

I may buy his book.



gPRT
Farewell, Ken Avidor, we hardly knew ye

Tuesday, November 27, 2007

See him refer to himself in the 3rd person plural

"They're talking about PRT on MN Speak," the Minnesota anti-PRT Propagandist blogs today.

Of course, when you go there you discover the post is about him, and he's driving the discussion with his scattershot Talking Points, cartoons and distorted Photoshops. "Joe Sixpack" aka Johnny Rocketpack even chimes in with his regular lie® that the Denver Airport baggage sys- blah blah b- Zzzzzzzzz. Oh, and yet more guys who think referencing Marge vs. the Monorail is original thinking.

Also 11/27: "Interesting." See him pretend not to know the reason Taxi 2000 has no patents (of course he reads Weiner Watch -- it mentions his name!)

11/28: See him pretend again.
Plus, notice he cut-n-pasted the same Talking Point Tidbit in two different News-Leader threads: 1 .... 2
Bonus egg! -- Ken Avidor: non-digital mannequin


gPRT
Be it ever so bumble, there's no place like Ken Avidor

Sunday, November 25, 2007

Why does he hate Shakespeare?

The Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist is trying his hand at cultural criticism, sniding at the Vectus brochure, "Really bad marketing blooper," with regard to the company's new brochure:



We know what he wants you to think: PRT = Huxley = Soma = dehumanized future.

That is the superficial, knee-jerk interpretation. As the rest of us know, Huxley's title refers to the line from Shakespeare's "The Tempest"--

"O brave new world, that hath such people in it." -Miranda

Huxley's story posits a nightmarish society in which many of the things that make us human have been banned, things like family, the arts,* books, science, religion, and philosophy.

PRT, a technology verified by scientific research, is therefore one of the things that would be banned in such a dehumanizing utopia.

Allow me to quote from the Wikipedia entry on Brave New World:
Additionally, stability has been achieved and is maintained via deliberately engineered and rigidly enforced social stratification. Source

Now, I'm not saying which is which, BUT-- which is the transit system of the Brave New World in Huxley's story: one that tells you what time you can travel, and that you tend to get better service if you live and work in redeveloped, gentrified areas? Or the one that includes a technology that lets you travel whenever you want, to and from anywhere you want, no matter who you are or where you live?

Obviously, Vectus would not want the negative comparison. PRT clearly adds to freedom of movement, choice and convenience, i.e. individuality. Therefore, the reference is meant to evoke Shakespeare, not Huxley; hope, not the nightmare. And any linkage to Huxley occurs in a context that Kenwood (again) shows he is oblivious to: irony.


Also today: People are asking about the Propagandist's new Upchuck video: "Has he purchased a tripod?"


* including Shakespeare, Kenmore-- this means Huxley's title is ironic
gPRT
'Tis he, Ken Avidor, that hath done thee wrong.

Wednesday, November 14, 2007

Why Conspiracy

Why would Ken Avidor choose to create and promote a conspiracy theory? Why would anyone?

It seems like a no-win affair: whether a UFO cover-up, the Illuminati or Bigfoot, alleging conspiracy automatically puts one outside the mainstream.

My guess as to the answer is: CONTROL. When you blame everything on a conspiracy you can't lose.

(1) You get to define the conspiracy. Thus, a transit technology like PRT can really be anti-transit if there is an insidious conspiracy by anti-transit highway interests.

(2) You decide who are the conspirators. For example, liberals and conservatives, corporations and environmentalists, all agreeing on an issue, indicates divergent interests have put aside differences to work on something they agree is to their mutual advantage. Unless there is a conspiracy. UPDATE-- Ken Avidor uses LinkedIn to stalk PRT advocates (12/2).
(3) Facts are only as you see them. News stories you disagree with are "puff pieces." Peer-reviewed studies you disagree with? You guys buy those. Plus, by invalidating those puff pieces and bought-and-paid-for reports, you can keep on being the sole voice of truth crying in the wilderness. You can continue calling for investigations, even though those news stories and reports were investigations.
(4) You are the smart one. Because you define the conspiracy, you have all the answers. You get to say things like "I have proof of everything I say," and describe yourself as "perhaps the leading skeptic" of PRT -- even though all the proof is circumstantial, circular or plain wrong, and you are the leading authority only because you invented the conspiracy in the first place. But it feels good to be the keeper of secret knowledge; the people who believe you call you an "expert."

A word about words -- or rather, their meanings. For there's really nothing wrong with the word conspiracy per se-- but the common usage of the word gives it a certain je ne c'est plot.

In other words, in the popular consciousness there is a difference between a conspiracy and a plan.

For instance Hillary Clinton was right about there being a 'vast right wing conspiracy' against her husband. All the evidence about Richard Mellon Scaife, the Arkansas Project, etc. are in the public record. There was a group of people with right wing sympathies, linked by money and documents, working in concert against the Clinton presidency. But Hillary Clinton was ridiculed for calling it a conspiracy, because the general public doesn't give much credence to the existence of conspiracies. She should have called it a plan.

Hence, we can say that plans and conspiracies begin with theories. But plans go on to have provable facts that link together people -- causes and outcomes. Conspiracies, therefore, do not have these features.

So we can understand Ken Avidor the Minnesota anti-PRT Propagandist by recognizing the role conspiracy plays in his arguments, and the arguments of his followers.

The conspiracy.
Certainly Ken Avidor's free 'n' easy use of "scam" and "stalking horse" are prima facie evidence that he is alleging a conspiracy. He's even gone back over 30 years, unconvincingly trying to show that the conspiracy spans the ages.

In 2004, former Minneapolis Councilman Gary Dean Zimmermann, Rep. Mark Olson and then State Senator, now Congresswoman Michele Bachmann conspired to fleece Minnesota taxpayers with a multi-million dollar boondoggle called Personal Rapid Transit (PRT).
The conspirators.
Anyone who doesn't side with him is a PRTista or gadgetbahner. This is a reality where a multi-discipline civil engineering firm is only a highway contractor because it was involved with a PRT program. But if another firm agrees with him, its highway projects are ignored. One propaganda tool is The Pod Squad (right) -- presumably they have been convicted of something, or Avidor thinks ought to be, and all riding in a PRT vehicle. But the graphic and caption together are a deception: it conveys the message that PRT is a crime. But none of them were convicted for anything to do with PRT.

And what a poor group of disembodied heads they are: no PRT projects approved; no funds secured for PRT programs; no LRT projects stopped. Aha! This just means the Avidor is effective!

And Michele Bachmann? The so-called PRT bill she sponsored in 2004 was simply to add PRT to the long list of categories of projects for which Minnesota local governments may issue bonds. And her support for PRT was so deep, that was the first and last time she did anything on PRT's behalf. She is not a PRT supporter.

The secret knowledge.
It's all circular. Name one of Ken Avidor's claims -- every single one has been knocked down. Yet he continues to repeat them, and invent new ones. The ULTra PRT gets a development project? There is no project. There is? Then ULTra isn't really PRT. It is? Then ULTra is not really a clean all-electric vehicle!

* * *

Soon things become so convoluted that allies become enemies and foes become friends. Take the light rail-only posters the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist has cultivated on the Seattle Post-Intelligencer Local Transit Forums. I won't name names, but two of them rhyme with Scroll Not Rolled To Mole Farriers and BihardBRANSITbadvocate. Read:

Posted by [Scroll Not Rolled To Mole Farriers ] at 11/2/07 7:40 p.m. in reply to: #1488320
Last edited at 11/2/07 7:54 p.m.
Now Sierra Club and Ron Sims are in the hunt for a better plan than what Prop 1 offers for its $157 billion in taxation over 50 years. It probably won't take Sierra Club and Sims the five years that ST required to come up with ST2.

So, let me get this straight, John Niles: you have now officially endorsed bad, shallow, and pie-in-the-sky conceptual planning and analysis? Isn't that how CETA came to embrace Monorail?

Figured out yet that Metro totally made up that 50k ridership figure, and that inflation will eat those new Rapid Ride service hours up in a giffy? [sic]

John Niles / Kemper Development Co have been talking up concept-only BRT for over 10 years now.

Now, Niles wants to "pass the torch" of phony support for his non-existent BRT plan to Ron Sims, and the kooks at the Sierra Club. Wow. I didn't know you could cop out on a cop-out!

Sierra Clubbers have a hidden agenda - they want to stop economic progress more than anything else...and hardcore tolling will definitely achieve that...

. . .
Posted by [Scroll Not Rolled To Mole Farriers] at 11/12/07 4:53 p.m. in reply to: #1504294
...When "Rapid Ride" begins service around the same time Central Link starts up, it will be clear to most people that Bus Rapid Transit is really just another way of saying "I was late, because my bus was caught in traffic." Metro could have included more capital amenities to make their slow, lumbering 2nd class buses try compete with light rail, but Sims chose quantity over quality.

A thoughful [sic] conservative would take a look at the operations and maintenance costs for running such a huge fleet of buses stuck in traffic, and see that Metro's .9 cent sales tax is getting eaten alive by inflation costs associated with having so many drivers, and so many internal combustion engines on the road.

But we don't have thoughtful conservatives here. Just the bomb throwing type. And the Interstate Era dinosaur road warriors.....



Posted by [BihardBRANSITbadvocate] at 11/12/07 5:14 p.m. in reply to: #1515781
Too bad there are no local versions of Paul Weyrich around here. He even gave Philadelphia good marks for getting Route 15 re-started with streetcars, although it sat for a little bit longer, because after the reconstruction, the neighborhood activists had their alderman block the re-start. Praising a rail line in Philadelphia when they supposedly have a working Bus Rapid Transit on the other side of the Alleghenies in Pittsburgh...

See what just happened?
(1) Buses were attacked because of their O&M costs. But light rail is nothing without bus feeder transit to increase the stations' rider catchment areas. Those costs will be incurred whether the primary line-haul mode is BRT or LRT. The real desire is for LRT, not budget savings.

(2) The Sierra Club (!) was attacked for not supporting the recent Seattle-area "Prop. 1" Roads+Transit measure, which would have authorized additional future LRT projects and highway projects. Sierra, a light rail supporter, decided it only wanted the light rail. In effect, Ken Avidor's running mates are attacking Sierra for being too pro-rail. The self-described anti-"road warrior" is really fine with roads, so long as it logrolls the desired technology, LRT, ASAP.

(3) Sierra's position is explained with a conspiracy theory--"a hidden agenda." That is how a venerable pro-environment group can disagree with you, the guardian of truth.

(4) Paul Weyrich (See his Right Wing connection, Part II, 5/30) is held up as an example of a conservative we need around here! Weyrich, co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, who once told a Resmuglican meeting:
I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections, quite candidly, goes up as voting populace goes down. Source (Crooks and Liars)
This is a friend of transit? A man who espouses anti-democratic values that, if carried out, would make public transit impossible? Beyond espousal -- he has had the political resources to make it happen. But he happens to have a newsletter that says nice things about the desired technology, LRT, so the Propagandist's disciples love him.

(5) Neighborhood activists are on the wrong side because they delayed the Philadelphia Route 15 streetcar. Silly residents, thinking that what happens where they live is any of their business.

* * *

We started by asking "Why Conspiracy?" For Ken Avidor, our diagnosis is Control -- perpetuating his campaign by (mis)defining his opponents and a technology. Why that should be so important could be due to the conspiracy theorist having control issues.

But I'm not claiming to be an expert.






gPRT
Ken Avidor is two - two - two mints in one

Friday, October 26, 2007

There's something about Bigpedia

Over at SenseUp (which has declared Get On Board!PRT to be "brilliant"), the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist trotted out this new little trial balloon (crossposted at Dump Mark Olson). We might call it Help, I'm Being Suppressed, Poor Me:

There's something called Bigpedia that uses a lot of the material from the Wikipedia PRT page… [ellipses in original] but also includes facts that PRTistas like ATren have kept out of the Wikipedia page including links to skeptical sites like mine and Light Rail Now... Source (what SoundPRT thinks about Light Rail Now)

Bigpedia? 'About 3 pages of hits on Google' Bigpedia? Notice that he actually posts three variations on the same theme between 5:39 and 5:44pm (1, 2, 3) -- two beginning identically with "There's something called Bigpedia." At this rate he'll soon drive Bigpedia's hits through the roof!

Bigpedia's one of those sites that copies Wikipedia content, presumably in order to attract hits. In this case, two year old content about PRT, as A Transportation Enthusiast so ably points out in this response:

What [MN anti-PRT propagandist] doesn’t tell you is that this is a verbatim copy of a 2 year old version of the Wikipedia page! See the corresponding Wikipedia version - it’s from April 2005!

Why are those links gone from Wikipedia now? Because they were found to be unreliable! In fact, many of the "disadvantages" you cite were removed by the consensus of multiple editors, when it became clear that there were no reliable sources to support them.

Here's another interesting tidbit: also in April 2005, [MN anti-PRT propagandist]basically junked that version of the Wikipedia article for his own propaganda-laced version, which was promptly reverted by another editor. So, [MN anti-PRT propagandist], two years ago you saw the need to replace this entire text with your own version, yet now you are promoting it? Why did you change your mind?

And here's the kicker: do you want to know where the link to [MN anti-PRT propagandist]'s website came from? He added it himself! Check out this edit from 2004, where IP address 208.42.19.234 adds the link to [MN anti-PRT propagandist]'s PRT pages. Now, browse to the contribution history for that IP address, and you will find this other edit in which [MN anti-PRT propagandist] identifies himself with a byline!

So, let’s review: (1) the Bigpedia article is a verbatim copy of the Wikipedia article from 2 years ago, (2) an article with which [MN anti-PRT propagandist] himself was so unhappy that he replaced completely, and which (3) contained links back to [MN anti-PRT propagandist]'s anti-PRT site that were added by [MN anti-PRT propagandist] himself, and which (4) also contained skeptical claims that at least half a dozen other Wikipedia editors agreed to remove because they were unsupportable.

Thanks for that link, [MN anti-PRT propagandist], and for once again proving my point that almost all anti-PRT sentiment on the net can be traced back to you.

Source

In
, as the kids say, yo' face!



gPRT
She says, hey babe, take a walk on the Ken Avidor

Thursday, October 18, 2007

Case Closed, or: I win the chess match

The Propagandist smears two liberal politicians

This is good! It's from the Seattle P-I Local Transit Forum. Long, but it's so worth it reading all the way to the Big Finish! (Skip to Big Finish)


Seattle PRT Proponents Excited by Daventry "PRT" Demo

#1496672

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/10/07 7:49 p.m.
Last edited at 10/10/07 7:50 p.m.

CETA member Prof. Schneider links to a BBC demo Video:

faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/whatsnew.htm

The Seattle PRT forum is excited about Daventry too:

groups.yahoo.com/group/seattleprt/message/2033

But, not the ordinary folks in Daventry:

dumpmarkolson.blogspot.com/2007/10/letters-to-editor-about-personal-rapid.html

...and the mayor of Daventry quit:

www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/Mayor-quits-in-dispute-over.3252012.jp
=============
#1496845

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 6:10 a.m. in reply to: #1496672

The Guardian goes Gadgetbahn:

"The Morgantown Personal Rapid Transit project is completed in West Virginia, connecting the city's five university campuses. Purists argue that it is light rail, not PRT"

www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/oct/11/guardianweeklytechnologysection.news1

Seattle's David Gow (Mr Grant) is upset:

innovative-transit.blogspot.com/2007/10/hello-minnesota-6th-congressional.html

...and in Daventry:

"Be positive about Pods":

www.daventrytoday.co.uk/sectionhome.aspx?sectionID=9073
=============
#1496874

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 8:44 a.m. in reply to: #1496845

www.daventrytoday.co.uk/news/Get-off-our-backs-and.3365283.jp

'Get off our backs and give us a chance'

By Alice Dyer

DAVENTRY Town Council has hit back at claims it is 'dysfunctional'.
The comments were made in last week’s Daventry Express by Chris Millar, leader of Daventry District Council, following the shock resignation of town mayor Alan Gauton.

He also said there must be something ‘rotten at the core’ of the body, and called for council members to stop squabbling and start serving the public.

Lynne Taylor, town council leader said Cllr’s Millar’s comments were ‘totally unfounded’ and ‘inappropriate’

“To seek to denigrate a public authority and its members without any direct knowledge of the manner in which it conducts its business is improper,” she said.

Mr Gauton quit his role as mayor and chairman of the council because he was unhappy with how the authority was being run.

His departure followed a string of councillors and staff members quitting the authority.

Cllr Taylor admitted the town council had suffered problems recently, but added Daventry was being served by a ‘dynamic’ mix of people dedicated to serving the public.

“So Daventry District Council get off our backs. Give us a chance to show what we can do for the people of Daventry,” she said.

The town council, which currently has five empty seats, was set up four years ago to look after services like hanging baskets, Christmas lights, the war memorial and allotments. It receives more than £300,000 a year of taxpayers’ money.

....how much of that money was spent hosting the PRT pod people?
=============
#1496881

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 9:14 a.m. in reply to: #1496874

www.daventrytoday.co.uk/news/Decay-of-forgotten-estate.3366026.jp

Decay of 'forgotten' estate

By Alice Dyer

WHILE the rest of the town seems to be heading for prosperity, residents living on a Daventry estate feel they have been forgotten.

As Daventry District Council continues to reveal ambitious plans for the future, including state-of-the-art transport systems, new homes, shops and 21st century facilities, residents say The Grange has been left to fall apart.

Ann Smith, chairman of the Grange Residents’ Association, said: “The estates have been left to go into disrepair. Some parts of The Grange look like a slum.

“The council wants the people of Daventry to be proud of the town they live in, but how can they when it’s like this? It’s like a dumping area now and it’s a mess.”

The Daventry Express visited the estate this week with Mrs Smith and Daventry district councillor Colin Poole to see the worst affected areas.

The whole estate is showing signs of serious neglect with broken paving slabs, vast amounts of weeds, broken benches, damage to the children’s play area, inadequate lighting, bushes growing over walkways and litter.

Walls have been smashed, tiles are falling off walkways and garage doors are hanging off. There is graffiti, boarded up windows and doors, broken fences and glass and children’s toys, furniture and other household items which have been dumped in the street.

Mrs Smith said: “I’m angry – we should not have to live in this squalor.
=============
#1500204

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 11:26 a.m. in reply to: #1496881

Why don't you quote the rest of the "Mrs Smith" article, instead of cherrypicking?

"I've lived on The Grange for 30 years and at one time I was so proud to have a house here, but over the past 10 to 15 years, I've watched it go down hill.["]

10 to 15 years! PRT planning in Daventry is 2-3 years old at most. You can't blame PRT for inattentive local government. Read more
=============
#1500354

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 3:16 p.m. in reply to: #1500204

Here's some more letters from Daventry...

Pod scheme is up in the air

It will be interesting to see how close the test track along Eastern Way for the proposed new transport system comes to reality.

A brief investigation will show that from a safety standpoint any new PRT system will have to be completely separate from existing pedestrian and vehicle routes.

The potential supplier's own web site states that where the track passes over roads there has to be 5.7 metres of headroom and for pedestrian transit 2.5 metres of headroom.

They also estimate that in an urban environment, such as Daventry, over 90 per cent of the system will have to be elevated. So if the system gets approval, much of it including the stations, will be almost 20 feet up in the air!

How much of the test track will be at this level?

Allan Simmonds
Drayton

Living in Disneyland?

I wonder if the people of Daventry share the enthusiasm of the council for the proposed PRT system reported last week.
At an estimated cost of £80 million, which will be inevitably optimistic, the comment "the officers in Daventry have the will and motivation to try something that has never been tried before" raises questions about the council's expertise and judgement.

Coming on top of the proposed marina and canal link, would we be wrong in asking whether the councillors are spending too much time on 'Disneyland' dreams instead of concentrating on the town and county management?

It would also be interesting to hear from them where the funds are coming from for the project; the recent conference and the consultancy firm instructed. Personally, I have considerable doubts about the practicalities of the scheme anyway.

G. Pearse
Highlands Drive,
Daventry

Town is world leader already

Daventry needn't worry about this new pod travel system – as it is already a leader! Leader of the highest petrol prices that is!
For the last four or five months the petrol prices at all garages in Daventry have stayed the same – they do not compete.

The petrol price has gone down everywhere else but Daventry! In the last month I have found petrol in Devon, Somerset, Essex and central London considerably cheaper (up to 5p a litre less) – surprising as the latter two are supposed to be more expensive to live in! Even petrol on the motorway services is the same as Daventry's or cheaper.

Why are we allowing ourselves to be ripped off?
Lets see some competition between the local garages!
G Bottomley
Elder Drive
Daventry

Tackle the real issues

Well done Daventry District Council, yet another brilliant idea...not!
Pods – well at least the kids will have something to do surfing, shooting, burning and wrecking the pods as they go round.

If there's £80 million on offer why not develop something for them to do, bin these crazy ideas and stop this town going completely down the toilet.

There is too much housing, too many people and so very little to do. I've lived in this town for 39 years and watched it slowly be destroyed by the local council who don't have the town's real population at heart. No police, broken roads, run-down estates, feral kids – these are the issues that need addressing not some hare-brained scheme like pods.
Wake up and smell the coffee DDC.

Name and address
supplied

Nice idea but wrong scheme

I have no wish to run down everything Daventry District Council comes up with and indeed it should be applauded for its forward thinking because, like it or not, oil will run out eventually and we must look for alternative soloutions to the car as we know it.
But I have to say I can not really see the pod as a realistic answer because if you think about it a horse and cart, although a lot slower, would be a better form of transport taking you closer to your home and using or causing very little carbon emission.

The pod system is bound to fail while there are still cars giving the public door-to-door conection and if you try to stop the entrance of cars to our shopping centre, people will simply go else where thus killing the town centre.

Leslie Weatherley
Via email
=============
#1500482

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 4:49 p.m. in reply to: #1500354

Of course there are skeptical letterwriters. It's a British national pastime.

I think you forgot this story though: "Pods prove a huge hit"

Oh wait, you didn't forget -- you ignored it, you naughty cherrypicker you.
=============
#1500653

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 8:25 p.m. in reply to: #1500482

Cherrypicking?

That's what PRT guru J. Edward Anderson said would be the SOP for getting passengers off disabled PRT pods:

Mr. Springer: Is there an evacuation plan

Mr. Ed Anderson: Yes. With cherrypickers, ropes, etc.

www.midtowngreenway.org/programs/transit/Streetcar_cmte_minutes_March_8_2004.htm

BTW... Does anyone know if David Gow is paid to promote PRT?
=============
#1500669

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 8:54 p.m. in reply to: #1500653

So? That kind of cherrypicker is a very safe basket on an arm mounted to a big truck. People use them every day. There are also scissors lifts you can put on trucks too.

But everyone who knows PRT (and isn't a PRTphobe) knows Anderson's preferred evacuation plan is for another vehicle to push the breakdown to the next station.

Why so concerned about my compensation, [K#n]? Just puttin' out a general call for snitches now, eh? Would it help if I bought a copy of your book?
=============
#1500688

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 9:20 p.m. in reply to: #1500669

Another great answer from J. Edward Anderson:

Question: How do we deal with squirrels, birds, raccoons, etc.?

Answer: Small creatures could nest in the bottom corners of my covered guideway without bothering anything. But, the plan is to build a maintenance vehicle equipped with a light, a television camera, and a high-pressure hose. It will be operated from time to time late at night to inspect the guideway interior to remove debris.

Right, lots of cities are going to want a transportation system that rains soggy critters etc. on pedestrians, buildings and vehicles.
=============
#1500696

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 9:35 p.m. in reply to: #1500688

[K#n], you've just given an argument that can also be used to argue that (in your language) "Telephone Poles Are a Joke" and "Power Lines Are a Joke." No one's going to want electricity infrastructure that birds can sit on and poop on your head, or that rain can drip off of!

In fact, why don't you go all the way and call your new blog "Any Tall Thing, That Something Can Fall From Onto Another Thing, is a Joke"?

Prediction: your next talking point in this thread will be PRT can't run in the snow.
=============
#1500852

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 6:19 a.m. in reply to: #1500696

Not my "talking point". I read about it it from the Taxi 2000 Corporation prospectus (Risk Factors):

"This technology [Ultra] is different in many respects from the Taxi 2000 technology and has some distinct disadvantages. It uses a larger and heavier guideway that we believe will be more obtrusive and more expensive. It uses larger cars that we believe will be more expensive. Because it uses rotary propulsion and braking, it cannot operate in ice and snow conditions and cannot run at the close headways planned for the Taxi 2000 system. Because it uses battery power, it is speed limited. At this point it lacks a complete control system, as well as other vital features of a commercial product."

BTW... is Morrie Anderson still CEO of Taxi 2000?
=============
#1500877

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 6:58 a.m. in reply to: #1500696
Last edited at 10/16/07 7:00 a.m.

... of course, the Taxi 2000 vehicle is unsuited for snow too. The way the sloping roof opens with the door would dump snow (and water if raining) onto the passengers... see photo:

i24.tinypic.com/20zz88g.jpg

Clearly, the Taxi 2000 pod was designed more to look "futuristic" than practical. Knowing that, the question is why are PRT promoters working so hard to promote it and who is paying them and why?
=============
#1500913

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 9:23 a.m. in reply to: #1500852

You mean the Risk Factors document you claimed revealed safety concerns that make PRT unworkable? And then had to backpedal when it turned out to be a standard investor safe harbor statement? Two years ago? Ahhahahahaha!
=============
#1500921

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 9:36 a.m. in reply to: #1500877

the Taxi 2000 vehicle is unsuited for snow too. The way the sloping roof opens with the door would dump snow (and water if raining) onto the passengers

Do you know the difference between a prototype and a production model? How WOULD one deal with such a problem? Hmmm... I don't know... how about a gutter, like on the edge of a car roof?

Prediction: your next Talking Point will be PRT doesn't have air conditioning. Instead, why not surf over to Vectus.se, where the new video includes a nice shot of the cabin's HVAC panel.

I must say, [K#n], you are up to your usual quality standards. Recently I corresponded with someone who wrote that he did not respond to your disinformation 2 years ago, because he thought it would help you sharpen your arguments. He is so pleased to have been proven wrong.
=============
#1500970

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 11:01 a.m. in reply to: #1500921
Last edited at 10/16/07 11:04 a.m.

That Vectus "HVAC panel" is in a dangerous position for heating a small pod. The lack of headroom means somebody could get a nasty burn on their head if they bumped into it or comes close to it... which is exactly what happens in this video:

prt.blip.tv/

The HVAC on the top also means cold feet... maybe not a problem in Seattle, but it would be in Minnesota where it can get pretty darn cold.

Also, it seems PRT is losing support even among the far right-wing of the MN Republican Party:

anti-strib.blogspot.com/2007/10/prt-can-it-be-real-progressive-solution.html

DFL candidate Elwyn Tinklenberg's campaign told me they will challenge Congresswoman Michele Bachmann on her support for PRT.

So, who are the public officials in Minnesota who support PRT these days, Mr. Gow?
=============
#1500984

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 11:17 a.m. in reply to: #1500970

[K#n], you are really making it up now! The HVAC panel will put out enough heat for the small space -- they won't be using it to make stir-fry.

What's more, Vectus is being designed to satisfy SWEDISH weather conditions.

As for Tinklenberg, I wish him luck.
=============
#1501105

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 1:39 p.m. in reply to: #1500984

I'm sure you do...

Elwyn Tinklenberg was Transportation Commissioner under Jesse Ventura. Tinklenberg had to put up with anti-LRT, pro-PRT arguments from PRTpromoters like David Morris:

www.ilsr.org/columns/1999/111499.html

Is David Morris still a supporter of PRT now that LRT is a huge success in Minnesota?
=============
#1501119

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:01 p.m. in reply to: #1501105
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:03 p.m.

Morris? Why don't call him up and ask him? Or have you given him the Larry Fabian treatment?

Are we really going to keep doing this thing we do? You resurrect some old talking point, I knock it down again, you drop it and raise another one, I debunk that one too? I have nothing but time.

But if it would be more convenient, I have an offer for you. I could design for you a web page that lists all your propaganda in numerical order. Then when you want to troll at, for example, Daily Kos, you can just type "Number 4!" and link to it. Or when you want to ask how I make a living, "Does anyone know if David Gow is Number 17?"

Anyway, it's just an idea. Let me know.
=============
#1501131

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 2:16 p.m. in reply to: #1501119

Why can't you view the Daily Kos story on Podcars anymore?

Was the guy who posted that Daily Kos Podcar story the Mayor of Fountain Valley, CA?

Y'know... this guy?:

www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31655
=============
#1501137

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:26 p.m. in reply to: #1500970
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:31 p.m.

[K#n], I knew you'd want to have this information about your "no headroom" talking point (prt.blip.tv) ASAP.

Why should this reporter have trouble when others didn't?

Putting on my old TV Production hat, it is obvious what happened. The cameraman was standing outside and had her framed too high. Being a good TV reporter, she did her best to stay in frame and stood upright too soon.

Should you be able to stand up straight inside? Why? All rides on PRT are intended to be seated.

This was my official debunking of the "no headroom" Talking Point; please make a note of it.
=============
#1501138

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:29 p.m. in reply to: #1501131
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:33 p.m.

Why can't you view the Daily Kos story on Podcars anymore?

The post-conference article has been reposted on Google Groups in Transport-Innovators, and in SeattlePRT on Yahoo Groups. Sorry, your trolling seems to have been omitted.

But, I saved a copy of the whole page; I can send it to you if you want.

Hope this helps!
=============
#1501449

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 4:53 a.m. in reply to: #1501138

Interesting:

en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ossified&curid=12934900&diff=165091706&oldid=165084034

Why is he so upset?
=============
#1501514

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 9:18 a.m. in reply to: #1501449
Last edited at 10/17/07 9:22 a.m.

Not "upset"; try "outraged." He explains why right there in the Wiki Diff.

Sorry, but what does this have to do with any of the things you have brought up in this thread? Try picking one, and stick to discussing it with others until you understand what you've gotten wrong.

Unless your purpose is not to discuss or understand, but rather just to simply regurgitate Talking Points?
=============
#1501536

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 10:00 a.m. in reply to: #1501514

You agree then with this blogger?:

www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?p=1454#comment-17778
=============
#1501558

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 10:46 a.m. in reply to: #1501536

Agree with what? That you do a fair bit of wiki-editing? I wasn't aware there was any doubt about that. Need me to stipulate to that? OK; or as you would say -- "Whatever."

Again, pick a subject and stick to it. Add to that: be clear.
=============
#1501625

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 12:27 p.m. in reply to: #1501558

Wasn't Cincinnati supposed to get a PRT system? What happened with that?

Oh, never mind:

news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071015/NEWS01/310150043

Cincinnati will unveil plans Tuesday on how to pay for a four-mile, $100 million downtown streetcar line that advocates believe will contribute $2 billion to the city’s economy and transform Over-the-Rhine.

The plan’s cheerleaders include politicians, transit activists and urban developers.

Guess all that "debunking" didn't convince anyone.
=============
#1501727

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 2:53 p.m. in reply to: #1501625

Kenwood, stop pretending you don't know what happened with Cincinnati.

Coy is not clever.
=============
#1501851

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 6:31 p.m. in reply to: #1501727

I thought you would know. The Skyloop website is still up, but it hasn't been updated for a while:

www.skyloop.org/news.htm

Is Forward Quest going to try to bring up PRT again?
=============
#1501875

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 7:39 p.m. in reply to: #1501851

Stop pretending you haven't known the answer to that question since on or before Sept. 26, 2006.

That's two Skyloop questions in a row though. Way to stay focused.
=============
#1501908

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 8:32 p.m. in reply to: #1501875

Thank you for reminding me to stay on topic... back to PRT in Daventry:

www.daventrytoday.co.uk/letters/Straight-out-of-Springfield.3387864.jp

Straight out of Springfield

This whole 'pod' scheme rings a bell to me. I think DDC has been watching too many episodes of the Simpsons. Episode 71 to be exact, entitled 'Marge Vs. the Monorail'.

The plot focuses around the town of Springfield buying a monorail from a conman, which ends in disaster! By the looks of the size of these pods, you won't fit in them with any shopping and if you have a buggy you can forget it! Does this also mean that the Daventry Dart drivers will be out of a job?

I agree with the recent letters in the Gusher – the pods will just get wrecked by the rogue kids of Daventry.

It's about time they stopped skipping with the pixies and thought about a bowling complex, cinema or something similar for families and teenagers alike to do in their spare time. Let's face it, there's nothing else to do in this town!

The pods are just another thing to add onto the 'list of stupidity' by the council alongside a marina with no canal. If it has the money for the pods why doesn't it have the money to build the canal? It's about time it started asking the residents what they would like, instead of trying to get on the 'global map'. We may be on the map as Cllr Millar states, but it will be as a laughing stock, not for anything great.

T Nairn
Braunston Road
Daventry
Last Updated: 17 October 2007 3:55 PM
=============
#1501921

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 8:46 p.m. in reply to: #1501908

Ohhhh! 'PRT is like the Simpsons monorail episode' -- how original!

Your point is that this is the level of debate that should decide public policy questions? I shall make a note of it.
=============
#1502066

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 9:03 a.m. in reply to: #1501921

Please do... and please also make a note of this item from today's SC Times:

www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071018/NEWS01/110180029/1009

"Severson and Rep. Mark Olson, R-Big Lake, called for new approaches to funding and for studying transportation alternatives, such as a system of elevated rails on which small pods travel a fixed route, known as Personal Rapid Transit.

Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?
=============
#1502085

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 9:50 a.m. in reply to: #1502066
Last edited at 10/18/07 9:52 a.m.

Hmmm, that rings a bell; why does this sound so familiar -- oh yeah, more Talking Points.

Your conspiracy theory doesn't work -- PRT-endorser EU is not right-wing. [PRT]-developing Sweden is not right-wing. Peter Calthorpe of the Congress for New Urbanism is not right-wing. The Short Elliott firm you hate so much gives more to Democrats. PRT has appeared in a state Democratic platform, but no state GOP platforms that I can find. Where was the federal PRT legislation during the 13 years the Resmuglicans controlled Congress?

Want to dump Smoochy Bachmann and Slappy Olson? I hope you do. But PRT is still just a technology. And you are, like today's weather, all wet.
=============
#1502186

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 1:58 p.m. in reply to: #1502066
Last edited at 10/18/07 2:00 p.m.

Hey Nedken,

I knows you loves your Flash videos, so you and your fan club should watch this one of Gus Ayer (you know, the guy you spammed at Daily Kos) at the Uppsala conference. He talks about using PRT to do sustainable smart development and reduce automobile use. In the Q&A he also decries the right-wing news media.

Then watch this video of the other politician who spoke in favor of PRT -- an Uppsala official from the Social Democrats. That's the democratic socialists, Kenworth.

Are THEY liberals, Mr. [Av!d@r]?

Lots of other videos from the conference too.
=============
#1502204

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 3:01 p.m. in reply to: #1502186

There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now.

PRT has no support among the DFL leadership in the MN Legislature.

Thanks for that Podcar page, Mr. Gow. I especially liked the presentation by Chris Perkins of Unimodal/Skytran... funny when his computer crashed.

He mentioned grants from the USDOT and NASA for Unimodal... is that true? I can't find anything about it on the web.

Thanks again.
=============
#1502215

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 3:27 p.m. in reply to: #1502204
Last edited at 10/18/07 3:36 p.m.

"left-wingers like Zimmermann"

So liberals who support PRT, from anywhere in the world, are corrupt?

That is a smear of breathtaking proportions, and a conspiracy of impossible complexity.

My post specifically asked you about Ayer, and Pelling of Uppsala. Do you have any proof they are corrupt?
=============
#1502353

Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 9:08 p.m. in reply to: #1502215

I was only talking about Zimmermann.

www.careerbuilder.com/monk-e-mail/?mid=23887027
=============
#1502405

Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 10:41 p.m. in reply to: #1502353
Last edited at 10/18/07 10:44 p.m.

No, I'm afraid you can't get out of it that easily. Rewind:

1. You wrote @1502066 "Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?" Which is part of your Talking Point that only right-wingers support PRT.

2. @1502186 I wrote about Gus Ayer and the "Uppsala official" Pelling, and asked you "Are THEY liberals, Mr. [Labridor]?"

3. Your answer immediately following @1502204: "There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now." Anyone who knows your 'work' knows this means Zimmermann was convicted for taking bribes.

Your meaning clearly was Ayer and Pelling are like Zimmermann, corrupt.

4. After I called you on this smear, your excuse @1502353: "I was only talking about Zimmermann." REALLY? You were answering a question about Ayer and Pelling! Why then bring up the corrupt Zimmermann at all?

The fact, Kenthorpe, is that you have no evidence that PRT is a right wing anti-transit conspiracy, you never have, and you never will. When shown liberals who support PRT you smear them. Your 'strategy' is nothing more than smearing any PRT supporter and adding them to your list of conspirators.

You are just like the right wingers you claim to oppose: when challenged with truth and facts you attack the messenger.

Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

=============

Hope you enjoyed it!

The thread in the P-I Forum (while it lasts, they clear old threads)

Oct. 19 -- The last entry has been deleted! Who ran crying to mommy this time??? (I have reposted an edited version, we'll see what happens)

Here is the repost:



#1502634

No, I'm afraid you can't get out of it that easily. Rewind:

1. You wrote @1502066 "Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?" Which is part of your Talking Point that only right-wingers support PRT.

2. @1502186 I wrote about Gus Ayer and the "Uppsala official" Pelling, and asked you "Are THEY liberals, Mr. [MN anti-PRT propagandist]?"

3. Your answer immediately following @1502204: "There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now." Anyone who knows your 'work' knows this means Zimmermann was convicted for taking bribes.

4. After I called you on this, your excuse @1502353: "I was only talking about Zimmermann." REALLY? You were answering a question about Ayer and Pelling! Why then bring up the corrupt Zimmermann at all?

The fact is that you have no evidence that PRT is a right wing anti-transit conspiracy, do you?

It doesn't exist, even though you've had this and other opportunities to present it.

Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.


Oct. 21-- He can't wait to tar Ithaca liberal with the Zimmermann brush; maybe it's artistic envy?


gPRT
Ken Avidor keeps his face in a jar by the door