RT @worldstreets: PRT? http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/prt-proposal-for-delhi-convinces-chief-minister-but-does-it-convince-you-see-poll-result
| PRT for Delhi? Yes, No, I don't know | ||
| Selections | Label | Category |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Excellent idea. Do it now | Very positive |
| 2 | Looks promising. Let's give it serious study | Positiv-ish |
| 3 | Hard to say at this point. Need more info before making a decision. | Neutral |
| 4 | You have to know the specifics of Delhi to have an informed view on this technology solution. | Neutral |
| 5 | Looks rather weak. Probably not a priority at this point. | Negativ-ish |
| 6 | Probably not for the Global South, but maybe a winner for other parts of the world? | Negativ-ish |
| 7 | A bad idea for Delhi and most certainly a bad idea for any other city in the world | Negative |
| 8 | Too uncertain, too expensive, too slow, too unproven and too marginal to make the needed contribution. | Negative, with assurances of years of looking into the matter, take my word for it |
| 9 | Quite an old fashioned idea really. Looked bad if naively tempting in 1970, but after years of endless discussion looks simply stupid today | Nose up, nostrils flared |
| 10 | This is a truly shameful, bizarre, irresponsible idea flaunted by interested parties and should be consigned to the trash heap of irresponsible proposals immediately. | Flame on! |
1. Do you support John Smith for Mayor?
2. Would you be more or less likely to support John Smith if you knew he had shot a man in Reno just to watch him die?
In this poll about #PRT in Delhi http://is.gd/GV6WsW pollster has helpfully provided 2 positive options, 4 neutral & 4 very neg options
#PRT poll; skewed http://bit.ly/jZeQm6
@Avidor "shameful"=11.8% http://is.gd/GV6WsW ___ #WahWaaahhh http://bit.ly/cX3zWu
@Avidor "shameful" now =10.8% http://is.gd/GV6WsW ___ #WahWaaahhh http://bit.ly/cX3zWu
Editor's note: We continue beta-testing the change to one of the oldest editorial policies of "PRT is a Joke" IS A JOKE. For a limited time, The Name of the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist will be shown -- although special formatting will be used.Why does multi-cartoonist Kena Wei (Ken Avidor) insist on guilt by associating a TECHNOLOGY with disreputable/questionable people who happen to say they support it? Pure-form advocacy of any transportation technology, by anyone, does not determine how a government would use it in the real world. For example:
Editor's note: We continue beta-testing the change to one of the oldest editorial policies of "PRT is a Joke" IS A JOKE. For a limited time, The Name of the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist will be shown -- although special formatting will be used.This week has brought another embarrassment to Ken Avidor's attempts at technology clairvoyance.
the fine print in the BAA press release says that the [Heathrow] project depends on "agreed milestones being achieved.". [sic] It is highly unlikely that ULTra-as-PRT will pass these milestones. Source
World's first Personal Rapid Transit System bursts onto scene at Heathrow
At Heathrow the world's first Personal Rapid Transit (PRT) system reached a significant milestone this week as the system was officially handed over from construction to operational testing on Tuesday.
The event was marked with the vehicle bursting through a paper screen before parking itself in the dedicated bay.
Workers on the innovative £25 million project assembled at the PRT station in the Terminal 5 business car park to celebrate the next step in the project as it moves from construction to operational testing.
Source
.JPG)
Here at "PRT Is a Joke is a Joke," we are always looking to adjust our motif, so today I am pleased to announce a new award: The Copper Heimlich.
This scrap of patina-green hot water line tied into a knot is awarded to ignoramus bloggers who swallow Kenwood Ovendoor's propaganda until they choke on it.
Our first Copper Heimlich winner is: Lloyd Alter of Treehugger!
What's so good (or bad) about Lloyd is that the propaganda stuck in his windpipe is the OLD debunked "Cyberspace Dream" e-fishwrap! That's right, the hit piece that pretended to analyze PRT, but couldn't even describe it accurately or do math correctly (and, FOUR YEARS ON, no corrections!).
Anyway, read Lloyd and have a good laugh -- especially this part, which shows Lloyd did absolutely zero homework:
No matter that they don't work; imagine three hundred people on a platform at rush hour. Imagine what happens when it breaks down. Figure out handicap accessibility. Think of how many will actually have two people- would you get in with someone you don't know?
I love that headline, because the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist used it in 2006, on the occasion of a failed attempt by the ineffectual Rep. Slappy Olson to attach PRT to a bonding measure. A dramatic headline to be sure, but he forgot to indicate what era, exactly, had ended. It was just a chance for him to list a number of setbacks for PRT, and sneer 'losers' at its backers.
Now, however, "end of an era" could never be more appropos. For last Sunday our old Luddite friend announced, announced and announced that he was taking a break from all his worries. At Dump Mark Olson:
If Anyone is Still Reading....
In keeping with my New Years [sic] resolution not to spend a lot of time on the internet, I'm not going to blog here anymore.
The statistics don't justify me posting and nobody is paying me to flog a dead horse for the few readers who bother to read DMO.
I probably will add one more update when Rep. Mark Olson is officially dumped at the polls.
Until then, the blog will remain as a resource for opposition research.
Hello I must be going...
I made a New Years [sic] resolution to spend a lot less time on the internet and get more artwork done.
What I found out is that it wasn't that easy to cut down. Somebody would send me something wacky about Bachmann and there I was composing, uploading... instead of drawing and inking.
I have to go cold turkey... so I've asked Eva to take away my ability to post on DB.
I began blogging at DB because the media was not reporting all the bizarre, wacky spectacle [sic] stuff Bachmann did and said.
The Dump Bachmann Team has done an amazing job of setting the record straight on Michele Bachmann and I'm satisfied that I have achieved the goals I had when I started blogging on DB way back.
The good news is that DB has excellent contributers [sic] from the 6th CD now. More good news is that there are two strong candidates in the DFL. Either Elwyn Tinklenberg or Bob Olson has a good chance of defeating Bachmann in November.
It's been interesting... but, I must be going....
[ellipses in original]
Back to the Artwork...
...Eva has been gracious for letting me post non-Bachmann stuff on Lloydletta also.
Why would Ken Avidor choose to create and promote a conspiracy theory? Why would anyone?
It seems like a no-win affair: whether a UFO cover-up, the Illuminati or Bigfoot, alleging conspiracy automatically puts one outside the mainstream.
My guess as to the answer is: CONTROL. When you blame everything on a conspiracy you can't lose.
(1) You get to define the conspiracy. Thus, a transit technology like PRT can really be anti-transit if there is an insidious conspiracy by anti-transit highway interests.
(2) You decide who are the conspirators. For example, liberals and conservatives, corporations and environmentalists, all agreeing on an issue, indicates divergent interests have put aside differences to work on something they agree is to their mutual advantage. Unless there is a conspiracy. UPDATE-- Ken Avidor uses LinkedIn to stalk PRT advocates (12/2).
(3) Facts are only as you see them. News stories you disagree with are "puff pieces." Peer-reviewed studies you disagree with? You guys buy those. Plus, by invalidating those puff pieces and bought-and-paid-for reports, you can keep on being the sole voice of truth crying in the wilderness. You can continue calling for investigations, even though those news stories and reports were investigations.
(4) You are the smart one. Because you define the conspiracy, you have all the answers. You get to say things like "I have proof of everything I say," and describe yourself as "perhaps the leading skeptic" of PRT -- even though all the proof is circumstantial, circular or plain wrong, and you are the leading authority only because you invented the conspiracy in the first place. But it feels good to be the keeper of secret knowledge; the people who believe you call you an "expert."
A word about words -- or rather, their meanings. For there's really nothing wrong with the word conspiracy per se-- but the common usage of the word gives it a certain je ne c'est plot.
In other words, in the popular consciousness there is a difference between a conspiracy and a plan.
For instance Hillary Clinton was right about there being a 'vast right wing conspiracy' against her husband. All the evidence about Richard Mellon Scaife, the Arkansas Project, etc. are in the public record. There was a group of people with right wing sympathies, linked by money and documents, working in concert against the Clinton presidency. But Hillary Clinton was ridiculed for calling it a conspiracy, because the general public doesn't give much credence to the existence of conspiracies. She should have called it a plan.
Hence, we can say that plans and conspiracies begin with theories. But plans go on to have provable facts that link together people -- causes and outcomes. Conspiracies, therefore, do not have these features.
So we can understand Ken Avidor the Minnesota anti-PRT Propagandist by recognizing the role conspiracy plays in his arguments, and the arguments of his followers.
The conspiracy.
Certainly Ken Avidor's free 'n' easy use of "scam" and "stalking horse" are prima facie evidence that he is alleging a conspiracy. He's even gone back over 30 years, unconvincingly trying to show that the conspiracy spans the ages.
 |
| In 2004, former Minneapolis Councilman Gary Dean Zimmermann, Rep. Mark Olson and then State Senator, now Congresswoman Michele Bachmann conspired to fleece Minnesota taxpayers with a multi-million dollar boondoggle called Personal Rapid Transit (PRT). |
Posted by [Scroll Not Rolled To Mole Farriers ] at 11/2/07 7:40 p.m. in reply to: #1488320Now Sierra Club and Ron Sims are in the hunt for a better plan than what Prop 1 offers for its $157 billion in taxation over 50 years. It probably won't take Sierra Club and Sims the five years that ST required to come up with ST2.
Last edited at 11/2/07 7:54 p.m.
So, let me get this straight, John Niles: you have now officially endorsed bad, shallow, and pie-in-the-sky conceptual planning and analysis? Isn't that how CETA came to embrace Monorail?
Figured out yet that Metro totally made up that 50k ridership figure, and that inflation will eat those new Rapid Ride service hours up in a giffy? [sic]
John Niles / Kemper Development Co have been talking up concept-only BRT for over 10 years now.
Now, Niles wants to "pass the torch" of phony support for his non-existent BRT plan to Ron Sims, and the kooks at the Sierra Club. Wow. I didn't know you could cop out on a cop-out!
Sierra Clubbers have a hidden agenda - they want to stop economic progress more than anything else...and hardcore tolling will definitely achieve that...
. . .Posted by [Scroll Not Rolled To Mole Farriers] at 11/12/07 4:53 p.m. in reply to: #1504294...When "Rapid Ride" begins service around the same time Central Link starts up, it will be clear to most people that Bus Rapid Transit is really just another way of saying "I was late, because my bus was caught in traffic." Metro could have included more capital amenities to make their slow, lumbering 2nd class buses try compete with light rail, but Sims chose quantity over quality.
A thoughful [sic] conservative would take a look at the operations and maintenance costs for running such a huge fleet of buses stuck in traffic, and see that Metro's .9 cent sales tax is getting eaten alive by inflation costs associated with having so many drivers, and so many internal combustion engines on the road.
But we don't have thoughtful conservatives here. Just the bomb throwing type. And the Interstate Era dinosaur road warriors.....
Posted by [BihardBRANSITbadvocate] at 11/12/07 5:14 p.m. in reply to: #1515781Too bad there are no local versions of Paul Weyrich around here. He even gave Philadelphia good marks for getting Route 15 re-started with streetcars, although it sat for a little bit longer, because after the reconstruction, the neighborhood activists had their alderman block the re-start. Praising a rail line in Philadelphia when they supposedly have a working Bus Rapid Transit on the other side of the Alleghenies in Pittsburgh...
I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections, quite candidly, goes up as voting populace goes down. Source (Crooks and Liars)This is a friend of transit? A man who espouses anti-democratic values that, if carried out, would make public transit impossible? Beyond espousal -- he has had the political resources to make it happen. But he happens to have a newsletter that says nice things about the desired technology, LRT, so the Propagandist's disciples love him.
Over at SenseUp (which has declared Get On Board!PRT to be "brilliant"), the Minnesota anti-PRT propagandist trotted out this new little trial balloon (crossposted at Dump Mark Olson). We might call it Help, I'm Being Suppressed, Poor Me:
There's something called Bigpedia that uses a lot of the material from the Wikipedia PRT page… [ellipses in original] but also includes facts that PRTistas like ATren have kept out of the Wikipedia page including links to skeptical sites like mine and Light Rail Now... Source (what SoundPRT thinks about Light Rail Now)
The Propagandist smears two liberal politicians
This is good! It's from the Seattle P-I Local Transit Forum. Long, but it's so worth it reading all the way to the Big Finish! (Skip to Big Finish)
Seattle PRT Proponents Excited by Daventry "PRT" Demo
#1496672
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/10/07 7:49 p.m.
Last edited at 10/10/07 7:50 p.m.
CETA member Prof. Schneider links to a BBC demo Video:
faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/whatsnew.htm
The Seattle PRT forum is excited about Daventry too:
groups.yahoo.com/group/seattleprt/message/2033
But, not the ordinary folks in Daventry:
dumpmarkolson.blogspot.com/2007/10/letters-to-editor-about-personal-rapid.html
...and the mayor of Daventry quit:
www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/Mayor-quits-in-dispute-over.3252012.jp
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#1496845
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 6:10 a.m. in reply to: #1496672
The Guardian goes Gadgetbahn:
"The Morgantown Personal Rapid Transit project is completed in West Virginia, connecting the city's five university campuses. Purists argue that it is light rail, not PRT"
www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/oct/11/guardianweeklytechnologysection.news1
Seattle's David Gow (Mr Grant) is upset:
innovative-transit.blogspot.com/2007/10/hello-minnesota-6th-congressional.html
...and in Daventry:
"Be positive about Pods":
www.daventrytoday.co.uk/sectionhome.aspx?sectionID=9073
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#1496874
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 8:44 a.m. in reply to: #1496845
www.daventrytoday.co.uk/news/Get-off-our-backs-and.3365283.jp
'Get off our backs and give us a chance'
By Alice Dyer
DAVENTRY Town Council has hit back at claims it is 'dysfunctional'.
The comments were made in last week’s Daventry Express by Chris Millar, leader of Daventry District Council, following the shock resignation of town mayor Alan Gauton.
He also said there must be something ‘rotten at the core’ of the body, and called for council members to stop squabbling and start serving the public.
Lynne Taylor, town council leader said Cllr’s Millar’s comments were ‘totally unfounded’ and ‘inappropriate’
“To seek to denigrate a public authority and its members without any direct knowledge of the manner in which it conducts its business is improper,” she said.
Mr Gauton quit his role as mayor and chairman of the council because he was unhappy with how the authority was being run.
His departure followed a string of councillors and staff members quitting the authority.
Cllr Taylor admitted the town council had suffered problems recently, but added Daventry was being served by a ‘dynamic’ mix of people dedicated to serving the public.
“So Daventry District Council get off our backs. Give us a chance to show what we can do for the people of Daventry,” she said.
The town council, which currently has five empty seats, was set up four years ago to look after services like hanging baskets, Christmas lights, the war memorial and allotments. It receives more than £300,000 a year of taxpayers’ money.
....how much of that money was spent hosting the PRT pod people?
=============
#1496881
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/11/07 9:14 a.m. in reply to: #1496874
www.daventrytoday.co.uk/news/Decay-of-forgotten-estate.3366026.jp
Decay of 'forgotten' estate
By Alice Dyer
WHILE the rest of the town seems to be heading for prosperity, residents living on a Daventry estate feel they have been forgotten.
As Daventry District Council continues to reveal ambitious plans for the future, including state-of-the-art transport systems, new homes, shops and 21st century facilities, residents say The Grange has been left to fall apart.
Ann Smith, chairman of the Grange Residents’ Association, said: “The estates have been left to go into disrepair. Some parts of The Grange look like a slum.
“The council wants the people of Daventry to be proud of the town they live in, but how can they when it’s like this? It’s like a dumping area now and it’s a mess.”
The Daventry Express visited the estate this week with Mrs Smith and Daventry district councillor Colin Poole to see the worst affected areas.
The whole estate is showing signs of serious neglect with broken paving slabs, vast amounts of weeds, broken benches, damage to the children’s play area, inadequate lighting, bushes growing over walkways and litter.
Walls have been smashed, tiles are falling off walkways and garage doors are hanging off. There is graffiti, boarded up windows and doors, broken fences and glass and children’s toys, furniture and other household items which have been dumped in the street.
Mrs Smith said: “I’m angry – we should not have to live in this squalor.
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#1500204
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 11:26 a.m. in reply to: #1496881
Why don't you quote the rest of the "Mrs Smith" article, instead of cherrypicking?
"I've lived on The Grange for 30 years and at one time I was so proud to have a house here, but over the past 10 to 15 years, I've watched it go down hill.["]
10 to 15 years! PRT planning in Daventry is 2-3 years old at most. You can't blame PRT for inattentive local government. Read more
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#1500354
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 3:16 p.m. in reply to: #1500204
Here's some more letters from Daventry...
Pod scheme is up in the air
It will be interesting to see how close the test track along Eastern Way for the proposed new transport system comes to reality.
A brief investigation will show that from a safety standpoint any new PRT system will have to be completely separate from existing pedestrian and vehicle routes.
The potential supplier's own web site states that where the track passes over roads there has to be 5.7 metres of headroom and for pedestrian transit 2.5 metres of headroom.
They also estimate that in an urban environment, such as Daventry, over 90 per cent of the system will have to be elevated. So if the system gets approval, much of it including the stations, will be almost 20 feet up in the air!
How much of the test track will be at this level?
Allan Simmonds
Drayton
Living in Disneyland?
I wonder if the people of Daventry share the enthusiasm of the council for the proposed PRT system reported last week.
At an estimated cost of £80 million, which will be inevitably optimistic, the comment "the officers in Daventry have the will and motivation to try something that has never been tried before" raises questions about the council's expertise and judgement.
Coming on top of the proposed marina and canal link, would we be wrong in asking whether the councillors are spending too much time on 'Disneyland' dreams instead of concentrating on the town and county management?
It would also be interesting to hear from them where the funds are coming from for the project; the recent conference and the consultancy firm instructed. Personally, I have considerable doubts about the practicalities of the scheme anyway.
G. Pearse
Highlands Drive,
Daventry
Town is world leader already
Daventry needn't worry about this new pod travel system – as it is already a leader! Leader of the highest petrol prices that is!
For the last four or five months the petrol prices at all garages in Daventry have stayed the same – they do not compete.
The petrol price has gone down everywhere else but Daventry! In the last month I have found petrol in Devon, Somerset, Essex and central London considerably cheaper (up to 5p a litre less) – surprising as the latter two are supposed to be more expensive to live in! Even petrol on the motorway services is the same as Daventry's or cheaper.
Why are we allowing ourselves to be ripped off?
Lets see some competition between the local garages!
G Bottomley
Elder Drive
Daventry
Tackle the real issues
Well done Daventry District Council, yet another brilliant idea...not!
Pods – well at least the kids will have something to do surfing, shooting, burning and wrecking the pods as they go round.
If there's £80 million on offer why not develop something for them to do, bin these crazy ideas and stop this town going completely down the toilet.
There is too much housing, too many people and so very little to do. I've lived in this town for 39 years and watched it slowly be destroyed by the local council who don't have the town's real population at heart. No police, broken roads, run-down estates, feral kids – these are the issues that need addressing not some hare-brained scheme like pods.
Wake up and smell the coffee DDC.
Name and address
supplied
Nice idea but wrong scheme
I have no wish to run down everything Daventry District Council comes up with and indeed it should be applauded for its forward thinking because, like it or not, oil will run out eventually and we must look for alternative soloutions to the car as we know it.
But I have to say I can not really see the pod as a realistic answer because if you think about it a horse and cart, although a lot slower, would be a better form of transport taking you closer to your home and using or causing very little carbon emission.
The pod system is bound to fail while there are still cars giving the public door-to-door conection and if you try to stop the entrance of cars to our shopping centre, people will simply go else where thus killing the town centre.
Leslie Weatherley
Via email
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#1500482
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 4:49 p.m. in reply to: #1500354
Of course there are skeptical letterwriters. It's a British national pastime.
I think you forgot this story though: "Pods prove a huge hit"
Oh wait, you didn't forget -- you ignored it, you naughty cherrypicker you.
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#1500653
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 8:25 p.m. in reply to: #1500482
Cherrypicking?
That's what PRT guru J. Edward Anderson said would be the SOP for getting passengers off disabled PRT pods:
Mr. Springer: Is there an evacuation plan
Mr. Ed Anderson: Yes. With cherrypickers, ropes, etc.
www.midtowngreenway.org/programs/transit/Streetcar_cmte_minutes_March_8_2004.htm
BTW... Does anyone know if David Gow is paid to promote PRT?
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#1500669
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 8:54 p.m. in reply to: #1500653
So? That kind of cherrypicker is a very safe basket on an arm mounted to a big truck. People use them every day. There are also scissors lifts you can put on trucks too.
But everyone who knows PRT (and isn't a PRTphobe) knows Anderson's preferred evacuation plan is for another vehicle to push the breakdown to the next station.
Why so concerned about my compensation, [K#n]? Just puttin' out a general call for snitches now, eh? Would it help if I bought a copy of your book?
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#1500688
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/15/07 9:20 p.m. in reply to: #1500669
Another great answer from J. Edward Anderson:
Question: How do we deal with squirrels, birds, raccoons, etc.?
Answer: Small creatures could nest in the bottom corners of my covered guideway without bothering anything. But, the plan is to build a maintenance vehicle equipped with a light, a television camera, and a high-pressure hose. It will be operated from time to time late at night to inspect the guideway interior to remove debris.
Right, lots of cities are going to want a transportation system that rains soggy critters etc. on pedestrians, buildings and vehicles.
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#1500696
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/15/07 9:35 p.m. in reply to: #1500688
[K#n], you've just given an argument that can also be used to argue that (in your language) "Telephone Poles Are a Joke" and "Power Lines Are a Joke." No one's going to want electricity infrastructure that birds can sit on and poop on your head, or that rain can drip off of!
In fact, why don't you go all the way and call your new blog "Any Tall Thing, That Something Can Fall From Onto Another Thing, is a Joke"?
Prediction: your next talking point in this thread will be PRT can't run in the snow.
=============
#1500852
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 6:19 a.m. in reply to: #1500696
Not my "talking point". I read about it it from the Taxi 2000 Corporation prospectus (Risk Factors):
"This technology [Ultra] is different in many respects from the Taxi 2000 technology and has some distinct disadvantages. It uses a larger and heavier guideway that we believe will be more obtrusive and more expensive. It uses larger cars that we believe will be more expensive. Because it uses rotary propulsion and braking, it cannot operate in ice and snow conditions and cannot run at the close headways planned for the Taxi 2000 system. Because it uses battery power, it is speed limited. At this point it lacks a complete control system, as well as other vital features of a commercial product."
BTW... is Morrie Anderson still CEO of Taxi 2000?
=============
#1500877
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 6:58 a.m. in reply to: #1500696
Last edited at 10/16/07 7:00 a.m.
... of course, the Taxi 2000 vehicle is unsuited for snow too. The way the sloping roof opens with the door would dump snow (and water if raining) onto the passengers... see photo:
i24.tinypic.com/20zz88g.jpg
Clearly, the Taxi 2000 pod was designed more to look "futuristic" than practical. Knowing that, the question is why are PRT promoters working so hard to promote it and who is paying them and why?
=============
#1500913
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 9:23 a.m. in reply to: #1500852
You mean the Risk Factors document you claimed revealed safety concerns that make PRT unworkable? And then had to backpedal when it turned out to be a standard investor safe harbor statement? Two years ago? Ahhahahahaha!
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#1500921
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 9:36 a.m. in reply to: #1500877
the Taxi 2000 vehicle is unsuited for snow too. The way the sloping roof opens with the door would dump snow (and water if raining) onto the passengers
Do you know the difference between a prototype and a production model? How WOULD one deal with such a problem? Hmmm... I don't know... how about a gutter, like on the edge of a car roof?
Prediction: your next Talking Point will be PRT doesn't have air conditioning. Instead, why not surf over to Vectus.se, where the new video includes a nice shot of the cabin's HVAC panel.
I must say, [K#n], you are up to your usual quality standards. Recently I corresponded with someone who wrote that he did not respond to your disinformation 2 years ago, because he thought it would help you sharpen your arguments. He is so pleased to have been proven wrong.
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#1500970
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 11:01 a.m. in reply to: #1500921
Last edited at 10/16/07 11:04 a.m.
That Vectus "HVAC panel" is in a dangerous position for heating a small pod. The lack of headroom means somebody could get a nasty burn on their head if they bumped into it or comes close to it... which is exactly what happens in this video:
prt.blip.tv/
The HVAC on the top also means cold feet... maybe not a problem in Seattle, but it would be in Minnesota where it can get pretty darn cold.
Also, it seems PRT is losing support even among the far right-wing of the MN Republican Party:
anti-strib.blogspot.com/2007/10/prt-can-it-be-real-progressive-solution.html
DFL candidate Elwyn Tinklenberg's campaign told me they will challenge Congresswoman Michele Bachmann on her support for PRT.
So, who are the public officials in Minnesota who support PRT these days, Mr. Gow?
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#1500984
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 11:17 a.m. in reply to: #1500970
[K#n], you are really making it up now! The HVAC panel will put out enough heat for the small space -- they won't be using it to make stir-fry.
What's more, Vectus is being designed to satisfy SWEDISH weather conditions.
As for Tinklenberg, I wish him luck.
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#1501105
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 1:39 p.m. in reply to: #1500984
I'm sure you do...
Elwyn Tinklenberg was Transportation Commissioner under Jesse Ventura. Tinklenberg had to put up with anti-LRT, pro-PRT arguments from PRTpromoters like David Morris:
www.ilsr.org/columns/1999/111499.html
Is David Morris still a supporter of PRT now that LRT is a huge success in Minnesota?
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#1501119
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:01 p.m. in reply to: #1501105
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:03 p.m.
Morris? Why don't call him up and ask him? Or have you given him the Larry Fabian treatment?
Are we really going to keep doing this thing we do? You resurrect some old talking point, I knock it down again, you drop it and raise another one, I debunk that one too? I have nothing but time.
But if it would be more convenient, I have an offer for you. I could design for you a web page that lists all your propaganda in numerical order. Then when you want to troll at, for example, Daily Kos, you can just type "Number 4!" and link to it. Or when you want to ask how I make a living, "Does anyone know if David Gow is Number 17?"
Anyway, it's just an idea. Let me know.
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#1501131
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/16/07 2:16 p.m. in reply to: #1501119
Why can't you view the Daily Kos story on Podcars anymore?
Was the guy who posted that Daily Kos Podcar story the Mayor of Fountain Valley, CA?
Y'know... this guy?:
www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31655
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#1501137
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:26 p.m. in reply to: #1500970
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:31 p.m.
[K#n], I knew you'd want to have this information about your "no headroom" talking point (prt.blip.tv) ASAP.
Why should this reporter have trouble when others didn't?
Putting on my old TV Production hat, it is obvious what happened. The cameraman was standing outside and had her framed too high. Being a good TV reporter, she did her best to stay in frame and stood upright too soon.
Should you be able to stand up straight inside? Why? All rides on PRT are intended to be seated.
This was my official debunking of the "no headroom" Talking Point; please make a note of it.
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#1501138
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/16/07 2:29 p.m. in reply to: #1501131
Last edited at 10/16/07 2:33 p.m.
Why can't you view the Daily Kos story on Podcars anymore?
The post-conference article has been reposted on Google Groups in Transport-Innovators, and in SeattlePRT on Yahoo Groups. Sorry, your trolling seems to have been omitted.
But, I saved a copy of the whole page; I can send it to you if you want.
Hope this helps!
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#1501449
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 4:53 a.m. in reply to: #1501138
Interesting:
en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ossified&curid=12934900&diff=165091706&oldid=165084034
Why is he so upset?
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#1501514
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 9:18 a.m. in reply to: #1501449
Last edited at 10/17/07 9:22 a.m.
Not "upset"; try "outraged." He explains why right there in the Wiki Diff.
Sorry, but what does this have to do with any of the things you have brought up in this thread? Try picking one, and stick to discussing it with others until you understand what you've gotten wrong.
Unless your purpose is not to discuss or understand, but rather just to simply regurgitate Talking Points?
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#1501536
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 10:00 a.m. in reply to: #1501514
You agree then with this blogger?:
www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?p=1454#comment-17778
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#1501558
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 10:46 a.m. in reply to: #1501536
Agree with what? That you do a fair bit of wiki-editing? I wasn't aware there was any doubt about that. Need me to stipulate to that? OK; or as you would say -- "Whatever."
Again, pick a subject and stick to it. Add to that: be clear.
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#1501625
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 12:27 p.m. in reply to: #1501558
Wasn't Cincinnati supposed to get a PRT system? What happened with that?
Oh, never mind:
news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071015/NEWS01/310150043
Cincinnati will unveil plans Tuesday on how to pay for a four-mile, $100 million downtown streetcar line that advocates believe will contribute $2 billion to the city’s economy and transform Over-the-Rhine.
The plan’s cheerleaders include politicians, transit activists and urban developers.
Guess all that "debunking" didn't convince anyone.
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#1501727
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 2:53 p.m. in reply to: #1501625
Kenwood, stop pretending you don't know what happened with Cincinnati.
Coy is not clever.
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#1501851
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 6:31 p.m. in reply to: #1501727
I thought you would know. The Skyloop website is still up, but it hasn't been updated for a while:
www.skyloop.org/news.htm
Is Forward Quest going to try to bring up PRT again?
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#1501875
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 7:39 p.m. in reply to: #1501851
Stop pretending you haven't known the answer to that question since on or before Sept. 26, 2006.
That's two Skyloop questions in a row though. Way to stay focused.
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#1501908
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/17/07 8:32 p.m. in reply to: #1501875
Thank you for reminding me to stay on topic... back to PRT in Daventry:
www.daventrytoday.co.uk/letters/Straight-out-of-Springfield.3387864.jp
Straight out of Springfield
This whole 'pod' scheme rings a bell to me. I think DDC has been watching too many episodes of the Simpsons. Episode 71 to be exact, entitled 'Marge Vs. the Monorail'.
The plot focuses around the town of Springfield buying a monorail from a conman, which ends in disaster! By the looks of the size of these pods, you won't fit in them with any shopping and if you have a buggy you can forget it! Does this also mean that the Daventry Dart drivers will be out of a job?
I agree with the recent letters in the Gusher – the pods will just get wrecked by the rogue kids of Daventry.
It's about time they stopped skipping with the pixies and thought about a bowling complex, cinema or something similar for families and teenagers alike to do in their spare time. Let's face it, there's nothing else to do in this town!
The pods are just another thing to add onto the 'list of stupidity' by the council alongside a marina with no canal. If it has the money for the pods why doesn't it have the money to build the canal? It's about time it started asking the residents what they would like, instead of trying to get on the 'global map'. We may be on the map as Cllr Millar states, but it will be as a laughing stock, not for anything great.
T Nairn
Braunston Road
Daventry
Last Updated: 17 October 2007 3:55 PM
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#1501921
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/17/07 8:46 p.m. in reply to: #1501908
Ohhhh! 'PRT is like the Simpsons monorail episode' -- how original!
Your point is that this is the level of debate that should decide public policy questions? I shall make a note of it.
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#1502066
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 9:03 a.m. in reply to: #1501921
Please do... and please also make a note of this item from today's SC Times:
www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071018/NEWS01/110180029/1009
"Severson and Rep. Mark Olson, R-Big Lake, called for new approaches to funding and for studying transportation alternatives, such as a system of elevated rails on which small pods travel a fixed route, known as Personal Rapid Transit.
Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?
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#1502085
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 9:50 a.m. in reply to: #1502066
Last edited at 10/18/07 9:52 a.m.
Hmmm, that rings a bell; why does this sound so familiar -- oh yeah, more Talking Points.
Your conspiracy theory doesn't work -- PRT-endorser EU is not right-wing. [PRT]-developing Sweden is not right-wing. Peter Calthorpe of the Congress for New Urbanism is not right-wing. The Short Elliott firm you hate so much gives more to Democrats. PRT has appeared in a state Democratic platform, but no state GOP platforms that I can find. Where was the federal PRT legislation during the 13 years the Resmuglicans controlled Congress?
Want to dump Smoochy Bachmann and Slappy Olson? I hope you do. But PRT is still just a technology. And you are, like today's weather, all wet.
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#1502186
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 1:58 p.m. in reply to: #1502066
Last edited at 10/18/07 2:00 p.m.
Hey Nedken,
I knows you loves your Flash videos, so you and your fan club should watch this one of Gus Ayer (you know, the guy you spammed at Daily Kos) at the Uppsala conference. He talks about using PRT to do sustainable smart development and reduce automobile use. In the Q&A he also decries the right-wing news media.
Then watch this video of the other politician who spoke in favor of PRT -- an Uppsala official from the Social Democrats. That's the democratic socialists, Kenworth.
Are THEY liberals, Mr. [Av!d@r]?
Lots of other videos from the conference too.
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#1502204
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 3:01 p.m. in reply to: #1502186
There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now.
PRT has no support among the DFL leadership in the MN Legislature.
Thanks for that Podcar page, Mr. Gow. I especially liked the presentation by Chris Perkins of Unimodal/Skytran... funny when his computer crashed.
He mentioned grants from the USDOT and NASA for Unimodal... is that true? I can't find anything about it on the web.
Thanks again.
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#1502215
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 3:27 p.m. in reply to: #1502204
Last edited at 10/18/07 3:36 p.m.
"left-wingers like Zimmermann"
So liberals who support PRT, from anywhere in the world, are corrupt?
That is a smear of breathtaking proportions, and a conspiracy of impossible complexity.
My post specifically asked you about Ayer, and Pelling of Uppsala. Do you have any proof they are corrupt?
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#1502353
Posted by PRTskeptic at 10/18/07 9:08 p.m. in reply to: #1502215
I was only talking about Zimmermann.
www.careerbuilder.com/monk-e-mail/?mid=23887027
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#1502405
Posted by Mr_Grant at 10/18/07 10:41 p.m. in reply to: #1502353
Last edited at 10/18/07 10:44 p.m.
No, I'm afraid you can't get out of it that easily. Rewind:
1. You wrote @1502066 "Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?" Which is part of your Talking Point that only right-wingers support PRT.
2. @1502186 I wrote about Gus Ayer and the "Uppsala official" Pelling, and asked you "Are THEY liberals, Mr. [Labridor]?"
3. Your answer immediately following @1502204: "There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now." Anyone who knows your 'work' knows this means Zimmermann was convicted for taking bribes.
Your meaning clearly was Ayer and Pelling are like Zimmermann, corrupt.
4. After I called you on this smear, your excuse @1502353: "I was only talking about Zimmermann." REALLY? You were answering a question about Ayer and Pelling! Why then bring up the corrupt Zimmermann at all?
The fact, Kenthorpe, is that you have no evidence that PRT is a right wing anti-transit conspiracy, you never have, and you never will. When shown liberals who support PRT you smear them. Your 'strategy' is nothing more than smearing any PRT supporter and adding them to your list of conspirators.
You are just like the right wingers you claim to oppose: when challenged with truth and facts you attack the messenger.
Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.
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#1502634
No, I'm afraid you can't get out of it that easily. Rewind:
1. You wrote @1502066 "Is Rep. Dan Severson, R-Sauk Rapids a liberal, Mr. Gow?" Which is part of your Talking Point that only right-wingers support PRT.
2. @1502186 I wrote about Gus Ayer and the "Uppsala official" Pelling, and asked you "Are THEY liberals, Mr. [MN anti-PRT propagandist]?"
3. Your answer immediately following @1502204: "There will always be a few left-wingers like Zimmermann... but I think we all know what motivated him now." Anyone who knows your 'work' knows this means Zimmermann was convicted for taking bribes.
4. After I called you on this, your excuse @1502353: "I was only talking about Zimmermann." REALLY? You were answering a question about Ayer and Pelling! Why then bring up the corrupt Zimmermann at all?
The fact is that you have no evidence that PRT is a right wing anti-transit conspiracy, do you?
It doesn't exist, even though you've had this and other opportunities to present it.
Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.
In, as the kids say, yo' face!
gPRT
She says, hey babe, take a walk on the Ken Avidor