He LeapFROGs to the wrong conclusion

Originally published at "PRT Is A Joke" IS A JOKE v.1

Words written with wildcards (***, !!!, etc.) was the way we originally wrote Ken Avidor, Ken, and Avidor.

****** is currently obsessed with FROG. Not the amphibian, but the wayfinding system known as Free Ranging On Grid. As usual there's a very high quotient of Bizarre.

It all started when ATS announced its contract with BAA for a PRT at Heathrow Airport. It threw *** into a tizzy.

One of his main Talking Points is that PRT doesn't exist. How would he cope with the Heathrow news? What he settled on is the Egyptian River strategy: denial. Unfortunately for him, the river is flowing through his house of cards.

It goes like this: He noticed that the Dutch company FROG is mentioned in a number of places as providing its eponymously named FROG vehicle navigation and control ("navcon") system for use in ULTra.

Then he noticed that a unit of FROG, 2getthere, makes automated peoplemovers. Naturally, these APMs use the FROG navcon system.

He also keenly observes that 2gt's APMs and ATS's ULTra share some common characteristics: size, doors and four wheels (10/28/05). He erroneously concludes that ULTra must be a copy of 2gt's vehicle.

The "***clusion"? He claims ULTra and FROG are the same! (The Screed, 10/23/05)

Next he claimed that "PRT" cannot be found on the FROG website (#897863).


The ***clusion? ULTra must not be PRT. Therefore PRT must not exist, QED.

There are two problems with this "theory":

The obvious one: FROG is a navcon component, not a vehicle. Having FROG in common does not make ULTra and 2gt the same.

The second one: "PRT" is mentioned on frog.nl.

For FROG, PRT is a mode. They advertise their Cybercab APM as having a PRT mode.

There is also a third, bigger problem for ***. ATS doesn't use FROG in ULTra anymore, and hasn't for two years. ATS developed the current navcon system in-house, which has operated ULTra test vehicles for the past two years with no failures. It was this configuration of ULTra that was approved by the UK rail safety agency, and is now being prepared for installation at Heathrow Airport.

*** could have avoided jumping to yet another embarrassing, erroneous conclusion. He could have done what I did. He could have just asked them.

So to sum up:

FROG-- a company; a navigation/control system
Cybercab-- an APM with PRT mode
ULTra-- PRT; not FROG; used to use FROG; now uses a navcon system of its own design.
PRT-- exists.
Te-- a drink with jam and bread.
Which brings us back to...

"PRT Is a Joke" Is a Joke!

Details: gPRT's ULTra intel



gPRT

Congestion T[r]olls

Originally published at "PRT Is A Joke" IS A JOKE v.1
Words written with wildcards (***, !!!, etc.) was the way we originally wrote Ken Avidor, Ken, and Avidor.

Remember *** ******'s insistence that PRT is really a front for the Anti-Transit Boogeyman? Well it seems PRT can't win no matter which end of the transportation spectrum is doing the judging.

J.F. Scott, who regularly brightens up the transport-policy Yahoo Group with his pro-automobile views, is a new member of ATRA's tranport-innovators discussion list. He has this to say:

PRT advocates tend to neglect transport mode choice. Part of this reflects an underlying animosity to auto use, part of it reflects the idea the PRT, once in place, will be so attractive that motorists will forsake their cars to use it. When you don't like cars, you tend not to compare the the benefits they provide to their users with whatever you offer as a substitute.

Somewhere between Scott and ****** is a middle position, where PRT is seen to be combining the best features of trains and taxicabs. PRT supporters aim to attract more types of trips that previously would have been done by car. But we recognize that cars will still be the preferred mode choice for some trips (cargo, long road trips, emergencies, etc.). Individuals will calculate this choice based on their unique circumstances: not because they are selfish, or lazy, or anti-social.

gPRT

His Magic 8-Ball must be broken

You-Know-Who predicted:

the fine print in the BAA press release says that the project depends on "agreed milestones being achieved." It is highly unlikely that ULTra-as-PRT will pass these milestones. Source

Item: First BAA Milestones Met

gPRT

Are You Exsmearienced?

Originally published at "PRT Is A Joke" IS A JOKE v.1
Words written with wildcards (***, !!!, etc.) was the way we originally wrote Ken Avidor, Ken, and Avidor.

"Yes it is!"
"No it isn't!"
--Monty Python

*** ******, who also calls himself "PRTSkeptic" online, hates roads. That's fine, at times they annoy me to. *** hates the Minneapolis 35W Access Project in particular. He calls it the Excess Project, which it may very well be.

But he hates everything connected to it. For instance, he even hates the project's designer, the engineering firm Short Elliott Hendrickson (SEH-- they also design other things, including transit operations, but we'll ignore that for now, as *** does). That SEH was at one time working with the Taxi 2000 Corp. on its PRT program, for which it needed the services of construction engineers, became "evidence" in ***'s eyes that Taxi 2000 is part of the big bad Secret Highway Cabal. And for some time he has made the most of it, one of his Talking Points on many occasions.

Let's review ***'s logic:

The Road Conspiracy: Bad

SEH: designs roads

SEH is therefore Bad and part of the Road Conspiracy

Taxi 2000: Bad and partnered with SEH

Taxi 2000 and PRT are therefore part of the Road Conspiracy

I never said it was logical logic, anymore than his attempt to label PRT a right-wing conspiracy simply because some of its supporters are Republican.

Which was how he spent a good part of the recent Thanksgiving weekend. Getting smeared on the website of my hometown newspaper is a holiday memory I'll treasure. Some lowlights:

Day	time	*** ****** said:
11/25	1:58p	PRT is all about bashing rail transit.
11/25	3:55p	There is no technology to discuss...PRT doesn't exist [ellipses in original]
11/25	5:25p	Excuses, excuses... [ellipses in original] that's part of what PRT is about-- it gives die-hard car-lovers an excuse not to use mass transit or ride a bike
11:25	8:05p	The PRTers can... Remove the links to LRT-haters like Emory Bundy... [ellipses in original] but you won't because PRT is just a stalking horse for the anti-LRT bunch.
11/26	6:24a	In Minnesota, the PRT/gadgetbahning-promoting elected officials are right-wing theocrats
11/26	8:51a	Democrat Jim Huhtala is running against Rep. Mark Olson in 2006 (Take a look at the picture of Jim Huhtala standing in front of the Hiawatha Light Rail... It's a clear choice for liberals. Nuff said. [man, now THAT's single-issue voting. I've since read some about Huhtala and found him a fine candidate; but ya gotta be more choosy than just a photo with a train]
11/27	6:54a	Mr. Gow, will the CPRT which lists you as their Seattle contact ask its members to help Mark Olson's [R] campaign in 2006 like the CPRT did for Dean Zimmermann in 2005?
11/27	11:05a	I can't find the acronym PRT on FROG's web site [oh really?]
11/27	11:05a	I would also like to to know whether Mr. Gow personally supports PRTers Michele Bachmann [very R] and Mark Olson or... their Democratic opponents... So Mr. Gow, who do you support? [response, #898390]
11/27	5:44p	Wow, Mr. Gow...SOME LIBERAL YOU ARE!!! Mr. Gow won't say whether or not he or the CPRT favors pro-NRA, Pro-highway, pro-war, pro-Bush, anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, pro-intelligent design Michele Bachmann and Mark Olson in the 2006 election... big surprise. That's how fanatical these PRTers are... [response, #899249]
11/28	3:38a	So Mr. Gow, what about Bachmann? She's running for Congress... Are you supporting her or Elwyn Tinklenberg? You probably don't like Tinklenberg... Elwyn and Jesse were big boosters of the Hiawatha LRT. [ellipses in original] [response, #899799]

Evidently, ***'s transit must fit his test of political purity, and PRT has picked up Resmuglican cooties. GOP chocolate is on PRT's peanut butter. Resmuglican green beans touched PRT Jell-o.

There were a lot more smears, vociferous ones, by two other posters, "terrorist" and "Sacs not swelled on Toad Worriers." *** claims those are not him using other identities, but come ON. ***, terrorist and Shawls not shed for Over Coats all use the exact same epithet-laden prose style.

Look closely at anything connected with *** ****** and you'll find humor and irony. In this case it is that he refuses to admit that his Light Rail Transit is itself covered in GOP and highway cooties! Not only are major Light Rail contractors like Parsons, Herzog and Kiewit also involved in highway projects, but their soft money contributions are overwhelmingly weighted toward Resmuglicans (see Finally, the experts take charge, Nov. 3).

Now I personally don't have a problem with that. They're civil engineers; it's natural they could do both road and transit projects, and they can donate to whomever they choose. My point is that it's the PRTSkeptic's litmus test, and he applies it only to PRT.

What's more, I looked up SEH's PAC contributions, and guess what? SEH gives more to Democrats! Noteworthy:

$2500, 2006 cycle, James Oberstar
$3000, 2004, John Hickenlooper, Mayor of Denver
$2000, 2004, Tom Daschle
$1000, 2004, James Oberstar

In the past cycle (2004) only $750 total went to Resmuglicans.

Using *** logic, doesn't that make SEH, and therefore PRT, the "clear choice for liberals"? Let me emphasize lest I be taken out of context: I don't think transit is inherently political, in the main support crosses political lines. Again, it's ***'s litmus test. I'm only asking why he isn't consistent.

gPRT

PRT Field Guide

Originally published at "PRT Is A Joke" IS A JOKE v.1
Words written with wildcards (***, !!!, etc.) was the way we originally wrote Ken Avidor, Ken, and Avidor.

"So, to be part of the PRT cult, do you go through some kind of re-education process that demands you only speak of this wacky idea as if it exists? Is that how you kooks suck in more snake oil salesmen? Through deception?
...
Once again, notice how the PRT cult is always focused on road-based non solutions to mass transit." Source

This sounds like the call of the extremely rare, wild-eyed Minnesota loon (mentalium Asteriskus). It is both fascinated by and aggressive toward that which it fears. Behavior: Attracted to vomit and bad animation. When challenged, it ruffles the few feathers on its small head and emits a high-pitched scream that extends into the ultrasonic spectrum. Markings: Black ink-like smudges and jarring primary colors on wingtips. Natural enemies include eagles, gray wolves and figments. Mating call: "bo-GUS... bo-GUS..." Often sighted in vicinity of Michele Bachmann (R-Stillwater). Conservation status: Endangered

Erratum: 11,278 visitors



gPRT

Our biggest fan

Originally published at "PRT Is A Joke" IS A JOKE v.1
Words written with wildcards (***, !!!, etc.) was the way we originally wrote Ken Avidor, Ken, and Avidor.

*** has visited gPRT 25 times so far this month.



Erratum: 10924 visitors
gPRT

We tell him, but he doesn't listen

Originally published at "PRT Is A Joke" IS A JOKE v.1
Words written with wildcards (***, !!!, etc.) was the way we originally wrote Ken Avidor, Ken, and Avidor.

An error in the Middle East Economic Digest story about the Dubai PRT project gave 1.2 km as the planned length of PRT guideway, rather than the length of the area PRT is to serve.

But that hasn't stopped *** from repeating the error:

Oct 22:

A 1.2 kilometer "network" (yawn) Source

Oct. 23:
Wow!!!... that works out to US $100 million for the 1.2 kilometers Source

People have tried to tell him he's wrong (comment 1), so by knowingly repeating the error he has converted the mistake into a lie. Not really a surprise.



gPRT

See Him Flail Wildly

Originally published ©2005 Get On Board! PRT

"Now it can be told"

The lead up to, and confirmation of, announcement of two groundbreaking PRT projects set off a flurry of denial and self-delusion in the anti-progress mini-community.

In September, this site passed on advanced word, gleaned from our sources, that official announcement of a PRT system at Heathrow Airport was imminent, and also that a contract would also be announced soon for PRT in Dubai (United Arab Emirates). At the same time we linked to an interesting article, originally found in a cached page on Google, of a Kuwaiti article that quoted aParsons Brinckerhoff representative promoting PRT as a potential option for Kuwait City.

The Minnesota anti-PRT activist immediately sprang into a frenzy of inaccurate research:

Sept. 18, 2005:

I've checked with Parsons Brinckerhoff and they do not have a PRT project in Dubai and they do not know of any PRT project in Dubai.   Source

Who at PB? You gotta write these things down. Anyway, he got his arab countries confused. The PB rep, Glen Thorn, was talking about Kuwait, not Dubai:

"Kuwait is now reaching the trigger point," said Thorn. ...One solution Parsons Brinkerhoff has for this is the futuristic Personal Rapid Transit (PRT). ..."Kuwait is the ideal candidate for this type of system due to the compact nature of its city center," said Thorn. Source

The subject of Dubai only arose at the beginning of the report, in a "Kuwait-too" style of introduction: "Kuwait may shortly join Dubai to start on urban rail projects..." The Minnesota anti-PRT activist did not stop at this misrepresentation. He then decided to go with the Hail Mary play:

There is no PRT project in Dubai.
And there is no PRT project at London's Heathrow airport either.Source

The desperation-play failed. In fact it was a clean interception, for within days the Advanced Transit Association announced:

Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC), in United Arab Emirates, is expected to issue in November a tender for a contract to design and build a personal rapid transit (PRT) system within the complex. Source

The story was originally reported in the Middle East Economic Digest. Then, on Oct. 20, the really big news:

Advanced Transport Systems Ltd (ATS) announced today that BAA had chosen their innovative ULTra Personal Rapid Transit (PRT) system, to provide better access to its terminals at Heathrow. The agreement between BAA and ATS also includes an investment of £7.5million in the company in return for 25% of the equity. Source

(This was followed by two British news stories, one from the mainstream press: Driverless pods to get airport users off to a flying start, BAA sees future in electric driverless taxis)

What was the Minnesota anti-PRT activist's response? Those expecting anything but attack and ridicule were disappointed (but probably not much):

Oct. 21:

Watch the silly videos on the new ULTra PRT website and have a good laugh at this cheap and crummy "Revolution in Public Transportation". Source

Oct. 22:

A 1.2 kilometer "network" (yawn).
Sounds like it's inside the complex... they won't have to worry about the lack of air conditioning in the pods.Source (see also See How He Makes It Up)

Also Oct. 22: he alleges "a transit expert" wrote to him:

The system itself proves "PRT is a joke". US$100 million for 1.2 km comes to about $83 million/km or $134 million/mile - for a system with minuscule capacity. Source

The "1.2 km" reference comes from the MEED report. Our sources inform us the reporter got that wrong: 1.2 km is the width of the area to be served. The Minnesota anti-PRT activist didn't bother to check into this.

Oct. 23: he implies ULTra isn't new or PRT:

Computer-guided vehicles are nothing new. A company called Frog makes them and Frog is mentioned in the ATRA announcement about the Dubai PRT  proposal.  

Clearly, ULTra has taken the Frog computer-guided, 4-wheeled electric buggy concept and stuck in [sic] on a roadway, not a slim guideway Source

Actually, there's nothing clear about this bizarre line of reasoning. The ATRA (MEED) announcement merely mentioned Frog as a company that supplies PRT technology. There is nothing that says ULTra=Frog. ULTra merely uses a proven navigation system made by Frog. ULTra's 25 mph vehicle is not the same as Frog's much slower vehicle, which is not even strictly PRT (while it can run on a guideway, it is designed to be able to run in a nonexclusive area, such as a parking lot).

Oct. 24: he attempts to link PRT to the egregious Rep. Tom DeLay, through selective use of the {snip}:

"The Metropolitan Transit Authority is holding this week's Advanced Transportation Technology Forum at the behest of U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Sugar Land...
"Unfortunately our transportation policy, and spending in particular, is still governed by an outdated vision," DeLay told the audience of about 100. "This past year, the city of Houston - after a long, hard struggle - installed the same oldmass-transit system that was installed in Calgary, Canada, the year I was born: 1947.
"It seems to me Houston can do better..."
"This is important work you are doing, and I look forward to helping you do it in the future."
{snip}
"Personal rapid transit : Running on narrow overhead guideways, a fleet of small, individual pods are computer-dispatched to stations when requested by passengers." Source (Houston Chronicle, via Houston Architecture Info Forum)

Seems like words about PRT came out of Tom DeLay's mouth, right? Wrong. Everything after the {snip} came from a sidebar/box, added by the newspaper, a list of 11 transit modes that were presented at the MTA forum. So there's a good chance that Hot Tub Tom doesn't even know what PRT is. And we bet he would never act against the long term interests of light rail, seeing as how rail consultants and contractors direct most of theirdonations to Republicans-- examples:

Bechtel
Parsons Brinckerhoff
Ch2M Hill
Kiewit
Booz-Allen Hamilton
Herzog Contracting

Now it can be told: the Minnesota anti-PRT activist wants to give billions of tax dollars to Republican megacorporations, in order to keep building transit systems that don't reduce congestion.

Oct 25: he attacks a seminar on PRT being held way way far away in Sweden:

The IST/Podcar homepage uses an ancient picture from the Raytheon PRT project. It's hilarious that they chose Raytheon as an example of PRT since it was a huge, expensive flop Source

Raytheon? They made critical but solvable mistakes. Old, old news. As he himself wrote, "ancient." Never mind that the forum's objective is "large scale light PRTs ("Podcars") as a sustainable road away from congestions, accidents, environment problems", or that its agenda included "The car is dead." Now this can be told: the Minnesota anti-PRT activist opposes sustainable alternatives to cars, congestion, accidents and environmental problems.

Oct 25: He derides innovation as "gadgetbahn" (a term originated by anti-progress rail supporters and applied to any innovative transit technology):

Gadgetbahn projects never die... they live forever in a state of suspended animation on the internet.
Here's a partial list of undead gadgetbahn projects.
Whatever happened to Ford's "Prism" PRT program? Source

He's so blind to facts that he doesn't even realize that Prism is not PRT. Prism was a dual mode concept--road vehicles drivable on an 'automated highway.' He just sees a new technology and reflexively hates it.

Oct. 26: See him be derivative. In response to a pro-PRT Sex Pistols parody, posted at "PRT Is a Joke" Is a Joke, the Minnesota anti-PRT activist felt he had to try his hand at parody as well. But he doesn't have the talent for it, as one commenter observed:

Hey bozo, an observation: it's not parody if you leave intact half the original material.
Oh, and "Oh we're so pretty"- 5 syllables.
"Oh we're so PRT"- 6 syllables. Source (Comment 1)

Oct. 28: Back to the Frog subject, the Minnesota anti-PRT activist posted pictures of the Frog 'Phileas' peoplemover and an ULTra PRT vehicle. Horrors! They both seem to have doors and four wheels! Maybe that's why he thinks innovative technologies are no better than automobiles. At any rate, he fails to mention the fact that Phileas, while not yet suitable for urban rapid transit, works.

Oct. 29:

For a real time-waster, read the silly announcement about Dubai and Heathrow on the Planetizen websiteSource

Yes, real silly: the article reports that Peter Calthorpe (only the head of the Congress for New Urbanism) "recently advised Dubai and has also called for new transit circulation technology "that offers fundamentally different choices in mobility and access" as a complement to existing smart growth tools." Now it can also be told: the Minnesota anti-PRT activist is against progressive New Urbanism/"smart growth" policies.

Nov. 5: Back to the start of this history: the Kuwaiti article that featured Glen Thorn and Parsons Brinckerhoff. The Minnesota anti-PRT activist claims that Thorn told him "I am not aware of any PRT system being designed or built in Dubai." Well, why should he? The article itself reports Dubai's team is led by Mitsubishi, not Parsons. Interesting that the Minnesota anti-PRT activist mentions nothing about what Thorn said about PRT as an option for Kuwait. If the article is wrong/false, why no blanket denial from Thorn that PB is doing any PRT work, rather than a very narrow statement on Dubai? Are we to believe he asked Thorn nothing on that subject? The Minnesota anti-PRT activist did report he had difficulty in doing research:

I could not find a direct link to this particular story to the Arab Times web site. Adding further intrigue to this snarky tale of PRT disinformation is the fact that the Arab Times's mailing address is a post office box in Houston Texas. Source

As though there can only be one Arab Times. There's at least one other, in Kuwait, which would explain why the article was about transit in Kuwait City. And I'll give the Minnesota anti-PRT activist credit for reporting his own embarrassment:

"dear sir[,] arab times (houston , tx ) has nothing to do with the arabtimesonline which is published in kuwait."
Maybe Mr. Gow can find a direct link for this story and share it with us. Source

We don't ordinarily do research for the opposition, but in this case we'll disclose that the original Arab Times story is quite easy to find, and can be purchased here. So undo the padlock on your coin purse! (Or follow the new link at the end of GTF's copy.)

Also Nov. 5: he casts aspersions on the construction industry news site ITP, and reporter Zoe Naylor:

...see if you can verify the facts in this story:

Sunday, 9 October, 2005 Up the Creek: Extending Dubai’s trading hub to build a new CBD
"Business Bay itself looks set to be well-served in terms of transport. In addition to the Creek extension (which is likely to promote the use of water taxis), the provision of a Public Rapid Transport (PRT) system is being considered within the masterplan." 

I contacted the editor of this web site and he said the reporter, Zoe Naylor would contact me and verify the stuff about PRT in the article. Zoe Naylor never sent me an e-mail.
Just for fun, Google "Zoe Naylor" [link]
Strange place Dubai... lot's [sic] of weird stuff happens there [link] Source

Again, it's so flattering for the opposition to ask us to do their research for them. Like arab news organizations, more than one person can have the same name too. Apparently there's an attractiveAustralian actress named Zoe Naylor. While it's certainly possible she is also a business reporter, I'm guessing that the ITP story was written by a different Zoe Naylor.

But what is really at issue here is that the Minnesota anti-PRT activist is questioning the veracity of reporter-Naylor's work, merely because she wrote about PRT. And he's trying to use Google to associate her with cheesecake photos of actress-Naylor. That's a denigration of reporter-Naylor's professionalism, not to mention anti-feminist. Maybe that's why reporter-Naylor hasn't gotten back to him. Now it can also be told: the Minnesota anti-PRT activist has no problem smearing anyone who writes about PRT, even those who merely report.

Search Zoe Naylor articles at ITP

He should have continued quoting Naylor's article:

"Part of our vision is to be environmentally friendly," says Mohammed Al Dabal, Business Bay Development, Creek Extension, Dubai Properties, "and this means introducing a transport system that reduces car usage." Source

Research shows there is a Creek Extension project, and that it is going to look like this (and it's not the same thing as the DIFC, which means the Minnesota anti-PRT activist can freak out about TWO Dubai PRT projects). But the Minnesota anti-PRT activist is not particularly good at research, as already established.

Any other problems he has with Dubai (such as the borderline-xenophobic remark about "weird stuff"), he needs to take up with Mohammed Al Dabal.

And the purpose of the veritable snowstorm (snow job?) of denial and self-delusion? Probably to buryhis hugely embarrassing claim:

"There is no PRT project in Dubai. And there is no PRT project at London's Heathrow airport either."—Minnesota anti-PRT activist

Thank goodness for permalinks.